The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[RichLockyer]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
FACT: The average dive shop in the USA today needs to make a 57% profit margin. Any business of diving seminar will tell you this.

Business of diving seminar?
Most seminars are hosted by 90-day wonders with an MBA and no experience... if they had any qualifications, they'd be running a business instead of hosting seminars.

But again, my beef is NOT with the LDS. It is with the suppliers who are choking the LDS out because they can't be bothered to deal with low-volume dealers.
One of the guys here on SB decided to shut down his shop for this very reason. A customer wanted a Cressi mask in a color that he happened to not have in stock. When he contacted Cressi, they demanded an order of something like $5,000 to "bring him up to his quota".
He bought the mask online for less than his cost from Cressi and gave it to his customer.

I can't fault him for that situation. His situation was created by his suppliers, and every LDS in the country has to deal with the same dealer agreements. His customers did not prefer Cressi for the bulk of their equipment, instead opting for other brands. That isn't a rejection of the LDS by the customers... just an indication that they liked Cressi masks and other brands for other items.

The LDS owners MAY have something to do with it. When two shops, 10 miles apart, are FAR different in their pricing structure, then one has to ask what's going on. When "Evil Empire" sells a Seaquest BC for 40% less than the LDS, yet you know that Seaquest won't let anyone sell for more than 10% off list, then it is obvious that the LDS is attempting to get 30% over list.

Going back to my tank situation... What WAS the basis for the two extremely different prices? Was PST bending the LDS over and he simply could not sell the tanks for anywhere close to "Evil Empire"? I can't imagine that he would not come down on his price for if that had not been the case... after all... six tanks is six tanks and it would have been $1800 in sales. He could have made over $400 free and clear, but he tried to get $930 and ended up with nothing.
He lost a sale and it cost his shop enough to pay for his electric bill.

 

[RichLockyer]

scubasean once bubbled...
You are missing out...I've flown R/C for several years, and fly the big planes, have flown heli's, etc.

Here ya' go:
http://www.linkline.com/personal/rlockyer/Extra1.jpg
http://www.linkline.com/personal/rlockyer/Extra2.jpg
http://www.linkline.com/personal/rlockyer/MVC-297F.JPG

About half from the LHS, half online.

And in the RC world, the disparity between the online world and the LHS is FAR greater than in scuba, with the difference that the online RC sources are authorized dealers.

...and the bad advice offered by the LDiveS is far worse (and more dangerous) than the bad advice offered by the LHobbyS.

 

[5615mike]

nyresq once bubbled...
LMAO- Laugh my a$$ off...
ROFL- roll on floor laughing
BS- Bull sh#t
LDS- local dive shop
OLDS- on line dive shop
LP- liesure pro
SP- scuba pro


any others just look around a little and you'll figure it out..

Thanks nyresq. Didn't need the further explanation......knew them all but LMAO.......I'm a much better person now with this new found knowledge.

 

[ScottyK]

OneBrightGator once bubbled...
Are you going to buy our own compressor after you've run all of your LDSs out of town? It's going to be tough to get that tank filled online.

Ben

It's not about the death of the LDS. It's about the death of the LDS in it's present configuration.

There's an area near me with some good diving, but no shop is really close. Guess what? The marina there has a full service fill station. As long as there is a market for fills, someone will "fill" it (bad pun, I know).

As the ranks of experienced divers grow, the current business model most stores follow of "fleece em as fast as you can" is beginning to show it's age.

Imagine the dive industry of the future:

Good deals on gear from retail establishments who's business is gear sales.

Training from independant instuctors, or organized instruction agencies. Lack of all the extra overhead and retail BS will make it possible to make some money without selling your soul. No more pushing gear that you don't like and certifying students who shouldn't be walking through deep puddles.

Marinas, tackle shops and such providing air fills right at the waters edge.


Evolve or die in a free market economy....

 

[RichLockyer]

Very good Scotty

 

[redacted]

OneBrightGator once bubbled...
IMO someone who buys their equipment online, then drags it into the shop and expects the employees to show them how their computer works or setup their reg is the lowest form of consumer, just a parasite.
Ben

I've seen a number of LDS's that profess this attitude. Some will even provide the requested service and then charge a grossly inflated price. But there are others who provide requested services in a friendly manner for a fair price. Guess which ones have a good reputation and are getting more satisfied customer referals.

Now guess which ones routinely try to capitalize on the lack of knowledge and fears of the newer divers. When a potential new diver asks me, I tell them what shops to avoid and what ones to patronize.

 

[OneBrightGator]

awap once bubbled...
I've seen a number of LDS's that profess this attitude. Some will even provide the requested service and then charge a grossly inflated price. But there are others who provide requested services in a friendly manner for a fair price. Guess which ones have a good reputation and are getting more satisfied customer referals.

Now guess which ones routinely try to capitalize on the lack of knowledge and fears of the newer divers. When a potential new diver asks me, I tell them what shops to avoid and what ones to patronize.

Well, time to help someone use a computer and set up a reg is built into the LDS price for equipment, if someone wants to buy online and then pay for my time so I can show them how to use it, that's fine too.

Ben

 

[OneBrightGator]

ScottyK once bubbled...


It's not about the death of the LDS. It's about the death of the LDS in it's present configuration.

There's an area near me with some good diving, but no shop is really close. Guess what? The marina there has a full service fill station. As long as there is a market for fills, someone will "fill" it (bad pun, I know).

As the ranks of experienced divers grow, the current business model most stores follow of "fleece em as fast as you can" is beginning to show it's age.

Imagine the dive industry of the future:

Good deals on gear from retail establishments who's business is gear sales.

Training from independant instuctors, or organized instruction agencies. Lack of all the extra overhead and retail BS will make it possible to make some money without selling your soul. No more pushing gear that you don't like and certifying students who shouldn't be walking through deep puddles.

Marinas, tackle shops and such providing air fills right at the waters edge.


Evolve or die in a free market economy....

Never happen, all the shops in one area will never adjust to the new market at the same time (i.e. making each part of sales hold it's own) and the first one that does start charging more for instruction will be the first one out of business.

It would be great if stores could adjust and start charging fairly for classes, fills and gear, but people will never pay $300 or more for a class or $10 for an air fill to save money on a BC, they still would be paying the same if not more for all that than they are paying now. Other stores will cut their throat and god knows manufacturers aren't going to loosen up their price fixing.

I absolutely agree with Rick, the reason we're in this mess is the manufacturers, they put LDSs between a rock and a hard place making them sell at a certain price but then look the other way when their gear is sold below cost online.

Ben

 

[pipedope]

I am old fashioned in that I love to pay cash for something and walk out the door with it. That is not the only, or even the main reason I buy at the LDS when I can.

SERVICE is what I am really buying at the LDS.

Information, advice, assistance fitting, adjusting etc.
A loner of a reg if mine is in for service.

I will always pay more for service.

I will not pay more just to get attitude.

If a shop gets to the point that I am getting bad attitude then they are history. I can save money and not get attitude online.
Or better yet, I can get good service somewhere.

 

[ScottyK]

OneBrightGator once bubbled...


Never happen, all the shops in one area will never adjust to the new market at the same time (i.e. making each part of sales hold it's own) and the first one that does start charging more for instruction will be the first one out of business.

Every example I mentioned is happening right now. LP is raking it in, and saving divers a ton of money. LDS's are going out of business, instructors are getting away from retail (i.e. instructors like MHK) and alternate air fill places are opening (in my area, at least).

You're correct about all the shops not being able to adjust simultaneously. A lot of them will probably go under. The small percentage that provide great service and instruction will most likely be better off when some of the lower quality shops close up.

I also agree with Rick that the manufacturers are more culpable than the retail outlets. At the end of the day, all I can say to that is it doesn't really matter who you blame. The end result will be the same.

No one ever said change was painless....