The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[medical1]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


As a customer you may not care but when we're discussing the possibility of an LDS applying the same business model or comparing then we need to look at it. I can't give you LP prices because the only way I have to get product is to sign a dealer agreement and meet the requirement of the manufacturer. If I want to compete with them I need to know where they get it.

But have you been successful in negotiatinh the price of a TV, refrigerator, furniture or lawn tractor. You just pay the sticker don't you?

There is a HUGE difference between MSRP and an actual sticker price. Circuit City has a TV with a MSRP of $300 but a sticker price of $200. I'll pay the $200(unless I can get a better price further). Not much haggeling but also not paying MSRP.

I don't know or care how LP does it as I'm not in that business but if I was I would be sure as hell finding out. I'd be worried about my livelyhood which is a powerful incentive.

Not like it would be a National Security Secret. They have a loading dock (Look at the trucks) and a store (Walk in and ask) so it can't be that hard to find out. Plant someone at LP & Divers Direct while your at it but stop pawning it off as they buy "grey market goods" as the supply is too consistant for that.

Amazing I've had some item back ordered for a week before they were sent- did they have to call "Jimmy No Thumbs" to have him hijack a spicific truck that had the item I ordered? No - there getting it from manufacturers! MAYBE they just negotiated a better deal as they buy in bulk.

Rememner the suggestion of cooperative buying. Has anyone gone to DEMA, formed a trade group and/or try to hook a few shops together to leverage buying power? Don't cry about lost sales or the industry if you don't get off your butt and do something about it. The squeaky wheel is the one that gets attention!

You said the same thing yesterday about MSRP till I brought up Trident. Then you had to admit that they don't have a MSRP on there products. They are also one of the largest suppliers of scuba gear in the country.

Don't just blame the manufactures for the markup by stating "They won't let us sell the equipment for less" while LP not only survives but thrives.

Lots of Hokie Pokie going on.....................

 

[zeN||]

"A quality snorkel is worth the expense."

Right on with that statement zeN||

 

[medical1]

Genesis once bubbled...


... fair to use it as a benchmark.

It doesn't matter how or where they get their stock. What matters is what they sell for, and that they are setting the market.

That others don't LIKE them setting the market doesn't change the fact that they DO set the market.

I agree! I am a VP of SALES for a National Co. This is not Disneyland. Customers are driven by price & value.
If you don't give a customer both or the customer feels there being shafted then you deserve to lock the door and walk away from the business. Either develop the market or stand back while someone else makes sales. :mean:

Either continue to cry and do nothing ;-0 , close the shop, or do SOMETHING about it

 

[scubasean]

jbichsel once bubbled...

One poster above stated that you should not spend much money on a snorkel as it won't be used much. I disagree.

When I go to places like the Caribean, Hawaii, etc., I can spend a lot of time snorkeling, whether it is during a surface interval or the two days I don't dive before flying home. Some of the best places to see and photograph sealife are surface to 10' in some areas. Ideal snorkeling areas.

A quality snorkel is worth the expense.

I agree with you...In times when you are not diving, snorkels are fine...

If I am diving, I leave it behind....gets in the way too much.

 

[dep1466]

medical1 once bubbled...


Dep - What would you do without your LDS. Remember You need them Where would you get your air fills?

Personally at the rate the LDS are going - I'll take a class in equip maintenance, gas mixing, buy my own compressor or hookah unit & chater my own dive trip if there are no LDS left. I'll still buy my equipment where I get the most bang for my buck!

I'm not going to support a business that thinks it's my duty to pay higher prices & that I owe something too. :upset:

The sport wouldnt just die. Gas stations near the coast could make a killing doing air fills, just the same as they fill propane tanks. Services would be a bit more difficult though. Maybe mail order...or just buy brand new stuff from the internet

 

[medical1]

dep1466 once bubbled...


The sport wouldnt just die. Gas stations near the coast could make a killing doing air fills, just the same as they fill propane tanks. Services would be a bit more difficult though. Maybe mail order...or just buy brand new stuff from the internet

Got me on that one.....
Hydros & VIP's would be handled by Fire Equip Co's so that wouldn't be a problem. Consumers would service there own Reg's (If you scr**w it up - who could you sue) so you would want to do it right. ***Not going to start the discussion on the torque wrench****

I agree that the sport won't die.

If a company does not offer value & a fair price then you as a consumer are being short changed plain & simple. Why should the LDS think there imune to the same problems that every other business in America has to deal with on a daily basis

Not real happy about having to bail out the airline industry because of mis-management either but I save that one for another day :upset:

My God - is it Monday again / Need more coffee!

 

[Otter]

So If I deliver value during the sales process(consulting, fitting, pool-try, mfg warranty) , BUT I don't price the equipment competitively with another outlet that DOESN'T offer that value, its FAIR & JUST to for a consumer to TAKE the value without returning any VALUE to the first shop and buy it from the second?

Is that REALLY what you are saying?

OR is it a disagreement over the amount of money that represents the value provided during the sales process? That is, all of things I mentioned above isn't worth the difference in price? Time, shipping, labor, future headaches, risk of getting improperly fitting gear or inappropriate gear has little to no value to you?

OR is it simply the fact that the FIRST shop delivered the value with an intention of making a sale to you (you'll agree that generally they aren't doing it for philanthropic reasons). You accepted that value and then seized the opportunity NOT to pay for it because it was offered somewhere else?

 

[sheck33]

Otter once bubbled...
So If I deliver value during the sales process(consulting, fitting, pool-try, mfg warranty) , BUT I don't price the equipment competitively with another outlet that DOESN'T offer that value, its FAIR & JUST to for a consumer to TAKE the value without returning any VALUE to the first shop and buy it from the second?

Is that REALLY what you are saying?

OR is it a disagreement over the amount of money that represents the value provided during the sales process? That is, all of things I mentioned above isn't worth the difference in price? Time, shipping, labor, future headaches, risk of getting improperly fitting gear or inappropriate gear has little to no value to you?

OR is it simply the fact that the FIRST shop delivered the value with an intention of making a sale to you (you'll agree that generally they aren't doing it for philanthropic reasons). You accepted that value and then seized the opportunity NOT to pay for it because it was offered somewhere else?

why does this only seem to be an issue in the diving industry i have gone to home depot to ask for advice and then went to another store to buy goods and the other way around. i have never been harassed anywhere but in a divestore for buying (stuff) gear 'elsewhere'. That is how it works, as a consumer i am free to ask advice and buy goods where ever i please, it is still a free country last i checked. as Genesis stated:

'Blaming the customer for coming in and checking out what you have, then buying somewhere else, is exactly backwards. You, as a merchant, had every opportunity to make that sale - you decided not to. Blaming the customer for your failure to close the deal isn't the customer's fault - its yours!'

Genesis is right.

you are not going to keep a customer if you harass them for buying things elsewhere. i have gotten to the point where i will buy online even if the item costs more :upset:

 

[Otter]

medical1 once bubbled...


I agree! I am a VP of SALES for a National Co. This is not Disneyland. Customers are driven by price & value.
If you don't give a customer both or the customer feels there being shafted then you deserve to lock the door and walk away from the business. Either develop the market or stand back while someone else makes sales. :mean:

Either continue to cry and do nothing ;-0 , close the shop, or do SOMETHING about it

DISCLAIMER: I don't know you and this is not an attack on you.

Having spent nearly all of my business life in the corporate world in either Marketing or Service Delivery, my experience with salespeople [generally] is that they are driven to succeed in making the sell -- sometimes at any cost. The poorer ones, because of their inability to communicate value or because their is little to no value in their product/service, focus on price. Great salespeople are able to communicate the value of their product/service and insure that the customer actually attains that value -- leading to referrals and repeat business [otherwise its a one time sale]

As you rightly point out, being competitive is bringing the 'right' price/value proposition to the table. However, as you probably have experienced, there are customers who [for a multitude of reasons] will take all of your value and then go buy from the lowest cost provider of the product. In effect, they want Nordstrom's [high end retailer] quality and service at Wal-Mart [discount retailer] prices.

The world is loaded with people who want something for nothing -- or more applicable to this discussion, they want to pay the LEAST amount they can for the MOST amount of value. Enron, WorldComm, Martha Stewart are but recent examples. I call that a flaw in CHARACTER, not "crying".

Some professions/industries have adopted to this flaw quite well -- doctors get paid whether you get well or not; lawyers get paid whether you are found guilty or not; consultants get paid whether their advice yields the desired results or not. Others have adopted by increasing their margins to cover the expenses of dealing with these types of buyers OR by not offering the "included in the sale" service at all.

Bottomline is that in our Capitalist society (still the best form of economy/government there is in the WORLD!!) we encounter this everyday. The SCUBA industry is no different...so if THEY try to find someway of getting a return on the value the offer, thats THEIR choice. If they decide they don't want the 'freeloaders' as customers, more power to them. If you decide to go somewhere else, no problem.

None of this changes the fact that if you get something for nothing and its not explicitly understood that it was given as a 'gift' (i.e. free), then its wrong.

 

[plsdiver4377]

sheck33 once bubbled...



why does this only seem to be an issue in the diving industry i have gone to home depot to ask for advice and then went to another store to buy goods and the other way around. i have never been harassed anywhere but in a divestore for buying (stuff) gear 'elsewhere'. That is how it works, as a consumer i am free to ask advice and buy goods where ever i please, it is still a free country last i checked. as Genesis stated:

'Blaming the customer for coming in and checking out what you have, then buying somewhere else, is exactly backwards. You, as a merchant, had every opportunity to make that sale - you decided not to. Blaming the customer for your failure to close the deal isn't the customer's fault - its yours!'

Genesis is right.

you are not going to keep a customer if you harass them for buying things elsewhere. i have gotten to the point where i will buy online even if the item costs more :upset:

I operate a small service business (Land Surveying) and I get calls all the time from people wanting quotes on prices, time frames, etc. This is called comparison shopping, and it's up to me to earn that business or let it go as the case may be. Every business in the world operates on this model except the dive industry it seems.

As far as warranties are concerned, unless there is a total failure of the item the warranty is useless (it only pays for the parts in a service, not labor) compared to a 50% savings on the item. I will usually take my chances except for things like masks.

Service from the LDS at least in my area is a farce at best. One LDS owner degrades every piece of equipment you own unless he sells it (even items he used to sell but has forgotten about, or God forbid you bought it online). The other can't seem to grasp the concept that a short fill on a tank reduces the amount of available air. According to him a tank with 2600psi has the same amount of breathable air as the same tank with 3000psi . If this were true we would not have to fill tanks at all since they all have the same amount of air in them:mean: . He also tried to tell me that a standard AL80 would sink when empty, I bet him a bottle of defogger on this one :mean: .

All that being said I now drive to Charlotte (this guy earned my business with service, which I paid for and gladly) for reg services, or anything other than an airfill (which I stand over them to make sure thats done properly). I also look to independent instructors for continuing ed.