The Great local dive shop vs. online debate

[MikeFerrara]

medical1 once bubbled...
Correct me if I'm wrong (Wouldn't be the first time) but MSRP stands for Manufacturer SUGGESTED Retail Price. Not the lowest price an item can be sold. Even retail stores don't charge MSRP. :wacko:

Come on now - have you bought a car at MSRP? If not - did you feel bad for the salesman or the local dealership because you bought a car for less then the MSRP?

Consumer quote
"Give me a break - John Stocel"

ok, I'll correct you. You're on a roll. You haven't been right yet (good natured humor )

MSRP does stand for that but...One manufacturer tells us we can sell for 10% under MSRP. Another just gives us a rock bottom for sale price (not based on a percentage. Another tells us we must advertise above a certain price alot of good that does. You can sell for what ever you want but your online store isn't going to get any sales because the only price you can show is right up there with MSRP. Another has a fair trade price which is supposed to be the sale price period. You are not to deviate so much as a nickle.

Some dealer agreements contain language to the effect of...after you buy it the stuff is yours and you can sell it for what you want but...we can refuse to sell to you afterward.

Some manufacturers are stricter about enforcing this stuff than others. This year along with ketting us go online most indicated they would enforce the agreement to the letter. I have recieved calls from one of the manufacturer to counsel me on my practices. That, BTW, was for quoting a customer a 5% discount over the phone. 5%!!!mind you. This has been, by far, my best selling line over the last two years.

Genesis,
sure you can play hard ball with these guys. Then they stop selling to you and you ARE DONE. You just pack and go home. Maybe you can take them to court but I haven't the money left to take them for a 50 cent ice cream! Who pays the rent and insurance while the walls are bare?

All,
You people can buy where you want I could care less. However I'm telling how this industry DOES work. You can deny it or refuse to believe it if you want but I know because I spent one hell of a lot of money to find out! Since I don't have a shop I have absolutely no reason to tell anything other than the truth.

I just wish some of you would get a clue. The shops might be run by idiots but it's a requirement of the manufacturers. That's who tought them. I guess you need to be sitting in your own business that you started with your own money and work and have some non-diving ass of a sales rep come in and lecture you on how to teach so as to sell more of their **** to understand what I'm saying.

I guess the biggest reason I closed the shop is the general diving public is incapable of learning. That goes for diving as well as the nuts and bolts of the industry.

 

[adjuster-jd]

After selecting the equipment I wanted, I shopped online, got prices from Leisure Pro, etc. However, I did want to make sure I had a warranty and also to maintain some goodwill with the LDS. I put together a package deal including everything I wanted- Reg, Octo, Computer, Wetsuit, Tank, Weights (already had BC) - and called my LDS. I explained that I would rather purchase from them and that I realize their price might be a little higher, but the price difference would have to be reasonable.
They worked up a package price which was slightly more than LP, but considering the goodwill and service I get from them (my next dive was with the shop owner, so if there was a problem with the gear, he'd be the first to hear about it), I thought the difference was reasonable.

You have to decide how much of a margin for "goodwill" you are willing to pay your LDS. Hopefully they'll be willing to work with you. If they're greedy, then online is a possible way to go with the various warranty caveats, etc.

 

[Genesis]

Genesis,
sure you can play hard ball with these guys. Then they stop selling to you and you ARE DONE. You just pack and go home. Maybe you can take them to court but I haven't the money left to take them for a 50 cent ice cream! Who pays the rent and insurance while the walls are bare?

Ah, but they can't stop selling to YOU now, can they?

So why not make this a crusade? You can still teach, you can still do the parts that you like - no more "enforcement" available on their end.....

 

[medical1]

Since LeisurePro seems to have the ONLY underground discount source of products - why not just buy stock from LeisurePro?

Mark a BC up $100 to $200 and you would still be selling cheaper then most LDS and still make a profit.

Better yet - since I believe LP might be getting a better price for buying in bulk from the manufacturer - why not get some shops together (Cooperative) and pull resources

If your hands are tied by the manufacturers then how does LP, DiscountDivers or any of the other discount sites do it? I'm tired of the blanket answer that they sell "Grey market goods".

The grey market seems to have a great selection of new products - Tusa, ScubaPro, DiveRite, Genesis, Zeagle, Spare Air, Body Glove, & Dacor just to name a few. Where do they get there inventory - Organized crime, the Russian Mafia, Hijacking trucks? No - they buy from the same people you bought from - The manufacturers.

PS: Mike - stand in line - my G/F always tells me I'm wrong ut:

 

[ElectricZombie]

I would wait a while before purchasing equiptment if I were you, make sure that you are going to stick with SCUBA.

I would buy everything online if I could do it all over again.

 

[dep1466]

The LDS's are going to have to find a way to change. You cannot expect a person to buy from you, at double the price just because your a nice guy. Money is money and no one has enough of it. I'm not gonna just start giving it away. People are going to find out they can get it cheaper, and they will. If selling merchandise is that much of your business, eventually all of them will go out of business.
People will go where its the cheapest. Its just the way it is. Thats why wal mart is so popular. Its cheap.
And I know you keep saying its the manufacturers regulating the price. Well the LDS deals with the manufacturer, not me. Sounds like you need to renegotiate your deal.

 

[zeN||]

If a dive shop fed me a line like that I don't think I would spend a plug nickel in their shop, it's that kind of business practise that sends people fleeing to online buying.
The problem is until you get more saavy you are likely to make poor decisions on buying. You have done some research on your equipment which is good, scubaboard is one good source to get opinions on gear.
Don't buy used gear to start, if you do make sure you get it checked out thoroughly with some kind of guarantee. Try to buy a good quality regulator, if you think you know what you want, see if you can rent the model for a day and try it in the pool first, it's all a big outlay of money. You will prob hafta buy your 1st suit at an lds to make sure you get a good fit.
You can be more successful buying fins and masks snorkel online.
Hope this helps zeN

 

[MikeFerrara]

hambleto once bubbled...
I have to agree with Genesis that the LDS should educate the student and not just try and scare them. When I was looking at OW classes, I asked why can I not just go out and get a mask from Wal-Mart or some place less expensive. They told me that I will not be allowed to take a class with them UNLESS I bought the gear from them. Needless to say I walked out of LDS and went else ware. (Not to mention they were going to charge me 3 times as much for the OW class and sell me gear 2-4 times more than I paid. I really liked the people there, they were REALLY nice, but the price and that but from us or do not dive with us attitude made me walk away.

Not to defend their methods but let me tell you where they're comming from (other than the fact that if you don't buy equipment they have no reason to teach a class). If you get a mask from wallmart and get in the pool in class and the masl doesn't fit and leaks so bad you can't dive in it, what do you expect them to do? If we sell a student a mask it's are problem if it doesn't fit and we'll fix it. If you get it somplace else it's between you and then and I'd prefer not to delay every one else in the class because of it. You might just have to sit out and wait for the next class to start.Will the masl cost twice what it is online? Yes, probably, but it's still only $45 or $50 bucks and it will work one way or the other and I'll make sure that it, or another one does. You'll get through your class smoothly. BTW, this happens often. I had one huy who got a wallmart mask. It fogged so bad he couldn't see. I suggested he clean it. When he did the plastic lense scratched so bad he couldn't see through it. He never did finish his class. He saved money on the mask though.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...


Ah, but they can't stop selling to YOU now, can they?

So why not make this a crusade? You can still teach, you can still do the parts that you like - no more "enforcement" available on their end.....

CORRECT!

 

[MikeFerrara]

dep1466 once bubbled...
The LDS's are going to have to find a way to change. You cannot expect a person to buy from you, at double the price just because your a nice guy. Money is money and no one has enough of it. I'm not gonna just start giving it away. People are going to find out they can get it cheaper, and they will. If selling merchandise is that much of your business, eventually all of them will go out of business.
People will go where its the cheapest. Its just the way it is. Thats why wal mart is so popular. Its cheap.
And I know you keep saying its the manufacturers regulating the price. Well the LDS deals with the manufacturer, not me. Sounds like you need to renegotiate your deal.

You have a point also but as it stands now there is no negotiation. They give you the terms and you take it or leave it. There's no indication that they care one way or the other. When a LDS wants to carry a line they fill out a dealer application. It's like applying for a job. They accept or reject you. If they accept you they give you their terms. The big manufacturers have shops waiting in line to get in.