The Ethics of Full Disclosure on ScubaBoard

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Er, ah well, how about specific evidence?
None are so blind as those who refuse to see. Quelle domage, n'est pas? Puisqu'il ne comprend pas l'anglais, peut-etre devrions-nous continuer cette discussion en français.
 
so, one of the big things that impacts this discussion is something that wasn't at least mentioned in the first 14 pages that I read, and I'll try to read the rest tomorrow *temporarily in the UK for work so way ahead of everyone else*. The industry in general has a roughly 3 year turnover. Very few people last longer than that, especially in the technical side. On the recreational side, if you last more than that, you are either a strictly tourist diver who is unlikely to be an active poster on here, or likely to be affiliated with a dive shop. If the latter, then you are going to have gear biases based on what you have experienced and what the shop sells. This will typically be one shop/manufacturer. Perfect example of this is @Lake Hickory Scuba where Brian is a Mares dealer and he fully discloses that and is quite open about why most of his gear is Mares. Key man discounts are the norm at this level and nothing secret in the industry

On the other side, you have the technical divers that are typically not associated with any individual dive shop or manufacturer. By this time, it is highly likely that relationships have been developed with certain shops and manufacturers just because of how few people there really are. Part of this means that no one essentially pays full price for gear, either through key man discounts, or "friends and family" type discounts, very rarely does anyone in this group actually get financial kick backs and if they do, you'll know pretty quickly. @Deep Six is a somewhat unique exception as they are trying to change the industry model, but I think they've done a decent job of making the information on the affiliate program open

I have three links in my signature. UWLD, Cave Adventurers, and Deep Sea Supply. I am not, nor have I ever been on any of their payrolls, but make it absolutely no secret that I have bias towards their products/services vs. other manufacturers and I have no issue answering questions on why because they are products I believe in. I truly believe that UWLD makes the best lights on the market, believe that Cave Adventurers offers some of the best resources for sidemount diving in the world, and that @cool_hardware52 truly changed my ability to safely and comfortably dive backmount on top of making some brilliant gear for reasonable prices.
Other companies like XS Scuba, Shearwater, Poseidon, Hollis, Deep6, HOG, and I know there are others but can't think of them are in a list of manufacturers that I am able to receive discounted gear and/or have received free gear/swag for different reasons. Every dive buddy that I regularly dive with has their own list of different manufacturers that we are able to avoid paying retail price with most manufacturers when we need/want something. If you have been in technical diving for over 5 years and don't have the ability to do that, then you are probably living under a rock or just haven't asked.


My oh My, I woke up this morning and received an email notification from ScubaBoard where I had been tagged in a post, incorrectly if I might add. No offense @tbone1004, my name is spelled Bryan not Brian, Y not I. It's ok, everybody else spells it wrong, no hard feelings. So I have spent the last few hours reading through the entire thread trying to grasp what the original post or question or topic was all about. From what I am reading, it appears that people want to know if someone has an affiliation with or if they are getting payed to make claims (praises) about a specific product. Now the last thing I want to do is jump right in and be part of the party, but I do believe in transparency. So here we go.

My name is Bryan Stafford, Co-Owner of Lake Hickory Scuba Center Inc., in Taylorsville, NC. I hold multiple Instructor ratings for 5 different training agencies, and have been diving since 1988. I have worked in the industry since I was 12 years old, starting out as a dive shop rat, sweeping floors and filling tanks. I have used and sold, virtually every gear manufacture on the market, at least the big names that is. I have worked for 3 Scuba Centers prior to opening up the one I currently co-own with my father. From day 1, we took everything that I had learned from all the other Scuba Centers about marketing, loyalty, and gear selection. We opted to carry only 1 brand of equipment, primarily because there are surrounding dive shops near us that carry a multitude of manufactures and have saturated the market with a bunch of choices. Now if we would have followed, the only thing I could have offered my customers was a better price, not a better product or service. So we chose Mares. In the beginning, to get the best buy in, we agreed to be loyal to Mares for a fair price, and support them, unless, they did not have a product that was specific to the type of diving our customers did. So in full disclosure with Mares, we brought in 2 other lines. First was Lifeguard Systems, because they made a BCD specifically for Public Safety Diving, for which we specialize in (I currently run 3 of the 7 dive teams I am a member of). Mares did not offer that. Then we brought in OMS, as our Back Plate and Wing systems. Once again, this was not in competition with Mares, we stayed loyal with them and only carried outside of them if they did not offer a specific type of equipment. Then Mares came out with their new XR line (Back Plates, Doubles, etc.). To keep our end of the bargin, we dropped OMS. Loyalty has payed off for us in so many ways. We have a better profit margin and buy in. Telling everyone this is no big secret, what we do keep secret, and rightfully so is how big that margin is. Furthermore, I can honestly say, YES, I do get free gear from time to time, and not only from Mares, but from others to review it. However, I have to send it back after reviewing. On occasions, companies will state that if they agree with my review, then I can keep the product as a token of gratitude for reviewing their product. I have even done bad reviews for a product, even Mares, and still got to keep it, because the manufacture saw it as an opportunity to get an accurate test done on their product, and they used it as a way to make their product better. This still does not mean that I will carry that line of gear. I have people call me all the time to compare equipment with Mares, because they know I have experience with it from the other Scuba Centers I worked at, or simply because I have personally used it. I have lost count of how many times, I have assisted someone to buy a piece of gear that I did not sell, because that is what they really wanted. Because at the end of the day, I want a diver to feel safe and comfortable while diving. And if the line of equipment that I carry, Mares, does not do that for them, then I will help them find gear that does. Loyalty goes a long long way, when it comes to business. I have chose to take the stance like this. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours. You do me wrong and it was nice knowing you. My business, though still somewhat small, has grown and continues to grow. I have tried not to compete with other shops, but to capitalize where they can't. Now, have I been transparent enough. P.S. this is still a business, and there are just somethings we do not say, and any successful business owner would agree, divulging all of our secrets would do more harm than good.
 
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I don't see the signatures spoken about in this thread. I don't know if they are the default and I switched them off or not.
 
My oh My, I woke up this morning and received an email notification from ScubaBoard where I had been tagged in a post, incorrectly if I might add. No offense @tbone1004, my name is spelled Bryan not Brian, Y not I. It's ok, everybody else spells it wrong, no hard feelings. So I have spent the last few hours reading through the entire thread trying to grasp what the original post or question or topic was all about. From what I am reading, it appears that people want to know if someone has an affiliation with or if they are getting payed to make claims (praises) about a specific product. Now the last thing I want to do is jump right in and be part of the party, but I do believe in transparency. So here we go.

My name is Bryan Stafford, Co-Owner of Lake Hickory Scuba Center Inc., in Taylorsville, NC. I hold multiple Instructor ratings for 5 different training agencies, and have been diving since 1988. I have worked in the industry since I was 12 years old, starting out as a dive shop rat, sweeping floors and filling tanks. I have used and sold, virtually every gear manufacture on the market, at least the big names that is. I have worked for 3 Scuba Centers prior to opening up the one I currently co-own with my father. From day 1, we took everything that I had learned from all the other Scuba Centers about marketing, loyalty, and gear selection. We opted to carry only 1 brand of equipment, primarily because there are surrounding dive shops near us that carry a multitude of manufactures and have saturated the market with a bunch of choices. Now if we would have followed, the only thing I could have offered my customers was a better price, not a better product or service. So we chose Mares. In the beginning, to get the best buy in, we agreed to be loyal to Mares for a fair price, and support them, unless, they did not have a product that was specific to the type of diving our customers did. So in full disclosure with Mares, we brought in 2 other lines. First was Lifeguard Systems, because they made a BCD specifically for Public Safety Diving, for which we specialize in (I currently run 3 of the 7 dive teams I am a member of). Mares did not offer that. Then we brought in OMS, as our Back Plate and Wing systems. Once again, this was not in competition with Mares, we stayed loyal with them and only carried outside of them if they did not offer a specific type of equipment. Then Mares came out with their new XR line (Back Plates, Doubles, etc.). To keep our end of the bargin, we dropped OMS. Loyalty has payed off for us in so many ways. We have a better profit margin and buy in. Telling everyone this is no big secret, what we do keep secret, and rightfully so is how big that margin is. Furthermore, I can honestly say, YES, I do get free gear from time to time, and not only from Mares, but from others to review it. However, I have to send it back after reviewing. On occasions, companies will state that if they agree with my review, then I can keep the product as a token of gratitude for reviewing their product. I have even done bad reviews for a product, even Mares, and still got to keep it, because the manufacture saw it as an opportunity to get an accurate test done on their product, and they used it as a way to make their product better. This still does not mean that I will carry that line of gear. I have people call me all the time to compare equipment with Mares, because they know I have experience with it from the other Scuba Centers I worked at, or simply because I have personally used it. I have lost count of how many times, I have assisted someone to buy a piece of gear that I did not sell, because that is what they really wanted. Because at the end of the day, I want a diver to feel safe and comfortable while diving. And if the line of equipment that I carry, Mares, does not do that for them, then I will help them find gear that does. Loyalty goes a long long way, when it comes to business. I have chose to take the stance like this. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours. You do me wrong and it was nice knowing you. My business, though still somewhat small, has grown and continues to grow. I have tried not to compete with other shops, but to capitalize where they can't. Now, have I been transparent enough. P.S. this is still a business, and there are just somethings we do not say, and any successful business owner would agree, divulging all of our secrets would do more harm than good.

Just for the record, I tend to think that if someone includes a bloody great business log in their signature, that probably counts as full disclosure.
 
Just for the record, I tend to think that if someone includes a bloody great business log in their signature, that probably counts as full disclosure.
It sure does for me.
 
Just for the record, I tend to think that if someone includes a bloody great business log in their signature, that probably counts as full disclosure.
mine has a link to my website..and that i want them to buy from me..I think that is pretty clear
 
None are so blind as those who refuse to see. Quelle domage, n'est pas? Puisqu'il ne comprend pas l'anglais, peut-etre devrions-nous continuer cette discussion en français.

You have still offered no actual evidence. Pete here's a tip, claiming some is so doesn't make it a fact regardless of how loudly and repeatedly you scream it.

I'm not asking for much, just a quote or two to support a very specific false claim.

Dazzle me.

Tobin
 
This has gotten entirely out of hand and I would like to see this thread come back to the original topic as it is now. So having said that, I apologize to all involved in this thread for posting my thoughts, opinions and being a piece of the problem as to the discussion going off-topic.

I look forward to the continued discussion around transparency and the "Ethics of Full Disclosure" Needless to say I have learned a lot from this thread about the industry and how it works and for someone who is moving towards being an instructor, this is invaluable information.
 
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https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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