the "Eco Kick" ...

[Seefourdc]

Have they started asking you for your c-card to confirm you aren't diving outside your training if they see you finning this way yet?!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You can use splits to frog kick. Although it does take some modification. But not in technique as much as in how much power you try to apply. Cut the power level and finesse the kick and it works quite well. Especially with a good set of splits like the Apollo Bio Fins.
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[nimoh]

last weekend in the pool I borrowed a set of splits to try out some kick styles.

The frog kick worked better with the splits than I thought it would, however, my test was to make a full kick and glide until I stopped moving before making another kick. It took me 6 kicks to do a length of the pool with the splits, and only 4 with my jets.

I then tried a reverse kick, and it didn't go well with the splits at all. What was happening is that when kick backwards, the trailing half of the split would dip down catching the water and pushing my foot down instead of staying level. I could move backwards but it took me about 5 kicks to 1 kick with my jets to go the same distance.

I also tried some helicopter turns, and they went about as well as the backward kick.

I'm sure someone will argue that if I did something different they would work better, but my jets work just fine and so I'll just stick with them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

last weekend in the pool I borrowed a set of splits to try out some kick styles.

The frog kick worked better with the splits than I thought it would, however, my test was to make a full kick and glide until I stopped moving before making another kick. It took me 6 kicks to do a length of the pool with the splits, and only 4 with my jets.

I then tried a reverse kick, and it didn't go well with the splits at all. What was happening is that when kick backwards, the trailing half of the split would dip down catching the water and pushing my foot down instead of staying level. I could move backwards but it took me about 5 kicks to 1 kick with my jets to go the same distance.

I also tried some helicopter turns, and they went about as well as the backward kick.

I'm sure someone will argue that if I did something different they would work better, but my jets work just fine and so I'll just stick with them.

Your results are consistent with my experiences with BioFins. I loved those fins ... till I decided that a back kick was important to me. Then I switched to blades. At first I hated them ... it felt like someone had tied a couple of logs to my feet. After 10 or 12 dives, I got used to the feel of them. That was almost 2500 dives ago, and I haven't dived a split fin since.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[elmer fudd]

They really ought to call it the ergo kick.

When you think about it, a flutter kick is an extremely inefficient use of our leg muscles. What we're really built to do is extend our legs. We support our weight and lift hundreds of pounds this way every day without even thinking about it. Next time you climb the stairs, consider that each of your legs is raising your entire body weight with each step. Those are some strong muscles.

The frog kick makes much better use of them. With each kick you extend your legs a little. A flutter kick on the other hand uses the same muscles you would use for a leg extension, a much weaker lift.

It's my opinion that the ergonomic nature of the frog kick is the only reason it is more efficient. A diver with his legs spread and his knees bent 90 degrees is obviously much less streamlined, but the more efficient use of his muscles makes up for it.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

They really ought to call it the ergo kick.

When you think about it, a flutter kick is an extremely inefficient use of our leg muscles. What we're really built to do is extend our legs. We support our weight and lift hundreds of pounds this way every day without even thinking about it. Next time you climb the stairs, consider that each of your legs is raising your entire body weight with each step. Those are some strong muscles.

The frog kick makes much better use of them. With each kick you extend your legs a little. A flutter kick on the other hand uses the same muscles you would use for a leg extension, a much weaker lift.

It's my opinion that the ergonomic nature of the frog kick is the only reason it is more efficient. A diver with his legs spread and his knees bent 90 degrees is obviously much less streamlined, but the more efficient use of his muscles makes up for it.

If you think a frog kick is a more efficient means to propel a diver through the water, then why don't freedivers use that kick? Certainly they need to travel the greatest distance with the least amount of energy expenditure possible.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I don't see any negatives with using a little marketing to make divers better. The problem is we (divers) include a big chunk of casual vacation divers, many who may not have a clue as to the damage they do to the reef or local visibility. If changing the name helps divers remember to stop rototilling the bottom I am a happy camper. The real backward step in my view was split fins. It not that they are evil or ineffective, but people loose the incentive to learn alternate kicks. When you are using hard paddle fins, the old muscles quickly scream for an alternative kick. With splits, you can flutter kick all day and not give it a second thought, unless you look behind at your trail of destruction. (Been there, done that).

 

[DaleC]

The frog kick and the flutter/scissor kick work two separate ways.

With the flutter/scissor, efficiency is achieved by kicking continuously. I can certainly go faster, especially when generating thrust from the hip. It's hard to incorporate a rest cycle in the flutter/scissor kick though, without losing forward momentum because each kick is countering the roll generated by the previous one. With continuous motion muscle fatigue is common, especially for divers who are not regular users of those muscle groups.

With the frog, efficiency is gained by incorporating a kick-rest cycle. That is why I can cover more ground while expending less energy that way. The trust is forward and there is no need for a counter movement to offset lateral roll. With practice, one can cover a lot of ground with strong kicks and efficient glides while enduring less muscle fatigue. Of course, one needs to develop those muscle groups because they are even less likely to be used to adducting/abducting the legs.

 

[undrwater]

Your results are consistent with my experiences with BioFins. I loved those fins ... till I decided that a back kick was important to me. Then I switched to blades. At first I hated them ... it felt like someone had tied a couple of logs to my feet. After 10 or 12 dives, I got used to the feel of them. That was almost 2500 dives ago, and I haven't dived a split fin since.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I still have my BioFins, and I agree they are great until you need a back kick for whatever reason (photo, video for me). I was able to do a frog kick, a helicopter kick (single foot rotate at the ankle...quite efficient!), and a VERY poor back kick. Having swum behind divers with the BioFins, I can say that they do no more damage to the bottom than a light surge. The problem is the kicks that swing below the diver's center line and strike reef surface.

I now have Hollis F-1's and am working to improve my horrible frog and back kicks. My helicopter is acceptable, but not as easy or efficient as it was in the BioFins.

On topic, any gear or style can be eco-friendly or not depending on how eco-friendly the human behind the gear is.

 

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

Have they started asking you for your c-card to confirm you aren't diving outside your training if they see you finning this way yet?!

Yes, and also if you haven't taken the perfect buoyancy course, you better be lying on your back on the reef.