The Diver's Personal Responsibilities

[BluewaterSail]

Presently, there is a bar fight going on elsewhere in the establishment. While this sort of thing is always interesting to watch, a discussion of expected behavior on a dive the likes of the Andrea Doria does not really affect the majority of us.

The subject of that thread (IMHO) boils down to being prepared to get yourself out of any difficulty at depth, vs depending on your team/buddy to assist. In the original thread it also is a solo vs buddy discussion, but lets not go there here.

I think that this question does have strong recreational application.

While I truly believe in the advantages of team diving, I also believe that one should not be doing a dive if they are not personally prepared for it. By prepared I mean that you have the training appropriate for the dive, equipment that you will likely need, you have planned the dive, including required gas, and then you dive the plan.

I so often see divers do zero planning, relying on a blend of their computer, their buddy, and/or a DM to extract them from difficulties, including the simple but deadly out-of-gas scenario, and Oops! OMG! My computer just went into deco!

OOG/OOA should NEVER happen unless there has been a huge equipment failure, and deco should either be in the plan, or stay in the NDLs. In my world, this has nothing to do with the solo/buddy arguement, it has all to do with an irresponsible lack of planning and following the plan. IMHO, team or buddy diving is not a license to be unprepared personally.

1) What do you think is the personal responsibility of every diver before he descends past one atmosphere?
2) Is it reasonable to expect a buddy or DM to compensate for your lack of planning or your lack following the plan?

Thanks John, for raising this issue!

Linda

 

[freewillie]

I would classify myself and my diving as hard core avid recreational diver. I have no illusions as to the limits of my training. I am AOW certified for what that's worth. I love any recreational type of diving. Warm water, cold water, boat, shore. To me deep is 100 feet. I'm not even Nitrox certified (yet!)

What divers discuss in other forms about doubles, trimix, mandatory decompression stops, etc is not for me. I like what I am trained for and don't have any opinion good or bad about tech diving in general.

The bare minimum a diver should be able to do is understand NDL tables, navigate without aid, monitor depth, time, and gas for each and every dive. I am my buddy's back up, and should be able to aid and assist in an emergency if needed. I should be as self reliant as possible, and in the event of separation need to know how to get back to shore or boat and assist in aid to locate lost buddy. Instead of "trust me" dives where I am trusting a more experienced diver to guide me and keep me safe, I should be a "trust myself diver" and not necessarily need another dive to lead me about.

I should be aware of my own limitations as a diver and not put myself or my buddy in a dangerous situation by diving in conditions over my head. I should have the good sense, honesty, and courage to call a dive if I know it is beyond my scope of training. I should also be aware of my buddy's skill and training and not put him/her is a similar dangerous situation that does not exceed my training but exceeds my buddy's training.

It my personal responsibility to be safe for myself and my buddy and dive within limits, monitor gas often and frequently, keep close buddy contact, and in short come home safe and sound after each and every dive. That includes recreational dives or the Andrea Doria.

 

[Johanan]

Who am I to say something about Mr.Chatterton's article or about the comments written to it by divers who have made dives I can't even meditate by means of imaginative contemplation? Yet, in some way the article resonated with my experience as little as it is. I agree with the OP that "

this question does have strong recreational application." In a nutshell, I think a team approach is aplicable if I dive with partners whom I know and trust and if I we have rehearsed all the procedures. In a dive excursion through a dive operator I am basically on my own. Yes, I get buddied up with someone on the boat, we must discuss and agree on procedures. But even then I must always count with a possibility that my instabuddy will abandon me - just swim away to see something. It has happened to me and I have done it couple of times (shame on me). When that happens, it turns out to be a solo dive - among a group of divers who in fact do not care. I can imagine two ways out of this problem. 1) Stick to the Rule #1 and avoid diving with instabuddies; for me it would mean to lose most of my diving opportunities. 2) To be trained and equipped as a solo diver. If there is a chance that my dive might unexpectedly become a solo dive, it is better to be prepared for that. This is not a solo vs buddy issue or an attempt to discard the buddy system. I think it's just a prudent approach to diving with someone whom I don't really know.​

 

[Doc]

1) What do you think is the personal responsibility of every diver before he descends past one atmosphere?
2) Is it reasonable to expect a buddy or DM to compensate for your lack of planning or your lack following the plan?

1) Know which direction the air is. This instinctual defense should kick-in at 1/66th atmosphere of depth and below.

2) "Is it reasonable to expect a buddy or DM to compensate for your lack..." I think you should be compensating them, especially if they give you a suck on their regumalator. Cash is good. Possibly, if you're cute :gorgeous:

Otherwise, I would have to say: NO.

You're on your own.
You are there only to assist others.
There is no one there to assist you.

If you are truly a "sheepdog" (On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman), you are most always diving on air and are ready and able to chase way down after any human anchor on nitrox.

Operate on that contingency. Everything will be fine thereafter.

 

[KeithG]

1) What do you think is the personal responsibility of every diver before he descends past one atmosphere?
2) Is it reasonable to expect a buddy or DM to compensate for your lack of planning or your lack following the plan?

Thanks John, for raising this issue!

Linda

1) to be able to execute the dive without additional assistance. The exception is if something goes wrong.

2) no. Unless that IS part of the plan - think about learning.

there are many posts discussing this topic and a general theme is that divers need to be self reliant, regardless of solo or team diving. Many situations have been identified where getting assistance is beneficial. These fall into my "go wrong" category.

Lack of planning or failure to follow the plan is just plain stupid. You can't fix stupid. Why should someone be given the burden of responsibility? If you are stupid enough to do "trust me" dives, you should be prepared to encounter a DM or buddy who is also stupid enough to let you fail (OOG, deco, ...)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Here is what any, but especially the NEW, individual diver should be responsible for. It's been a sticky on this board for a few years now. I usually give it a bump in March or April when the season is starting up again but what the heck? Now's as good a time as any.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

If your training left any of this to doubt or did not cover it I would strongly suggest that you address that before getting back in the water this season.

 

[Bob DBF]

1) What do you think is the personal responsibility of every diver before he descends past one atmosphere?
2) Is it reasonable to expect a buddy or DM to compensate for your lack of planning or your lack following the plan?

Linda

1) When anyone gets into, or under water they are responsible for their own life. As was said to me ages ago, "you can't breathe water, so you better have a good plan".

2) When diving as buddies, or in a team, you are responsible for each other and should plan accordingly. Unfortunatly, in that situation, all participants would probably have bad planning and this would put you in the same jackpot, but you would have company. Diving as buddies or team diving is made to avoid poor planning but does not insure that.

DM's are quirky, if you and a dozen of your friends pay him to show you the pretty fishes there is not an obligation to be your savior, but he probably would, if he notices. If you pay him to insure your safety, he will.


3) A solo diver can not be counted on to help anyone because his dive plan does not include helping a buddy, there is none. I dive solo and it would depend upon where in my dive an incident occours whether I could render assistance without forfiting my safety or my life. I had to be physically restrained once after rendering assistance on a solo dive, but I was much younger then. Now, since I'm a fat old man, I avoid the situation because I know how lucky I was then.



Bob
-----------------------------------------------
The most important thing to plan when solo diving is to make sure that you are not diving with an idiot. Dsix36

 

[drbill]

Of course in the "old" days (say the 60s) advanced training was not available and many of us divers did things based on little real experience or knowledge. Solo diving and even deep diving were often involved. I am only certified to rescue level but have 50+ years of diving experience. I done things things well "beyond my training" if I had a specific reason to do so. I'm no thrill seeker. However I did many deep (180-200 fsw) dives on air solo when I needed to film critters down there. I did them solo because I didn't want responsibility for someone else or to put them into a position of responsibility for me. The boat crew was informed that if I were diving deep and something happened, they were NOT to attempt a rescue. My family was informed that the boat operator and crew were not to be held liable should anything happen. I took full responsibility.

Based on my personal experience I have a 17X greater risk of a problem occurring when diving with a buddy. Of course most of those incidents when buddying up were due to diving with a buddy I was unfamiliar with. The incidents while diving solo involved equipment failure, and I learned from them and have addressed ways to compensate should such failure occur again.

I love diving with some of my regular buddies (and with a few irregular ones as well). It is great to share the experience. In such situations I acknowledge my responsibility toward them (especially when diving with my son).

 

[Nemrod]

1) What do you think is the personal responsibility of every diver before he descends past one atmosphere? Linda

Your life and the life of your buddy and causing no damage to the environment.

) Is it reasonable to expect a buddy or DM to compensate for your lack of planning or your lack following the plan? Linda

No.

And there is a bar fight in the other thread because it is another "my way or the highway" thread.

N

 

[TSandM]

I think anyone preparing to dive, alone or in a buddy pair or team or group, needs to understand the dive proposed, know that their training and experience, skills and equipment are suitable for that dive, and plan a gas supply that is adequate for the proposed dive. Diving should be a proactive activity, not a reactive one.

Some contingencies are difficult to handle by yourself, or easier to handle in a buddy pair or team, or can be planned either way. If the team has planned that an out of gas situation from a freeflow, for example, is to be handled with team resources, then it is entirely reasonable to handle the situation that way if it occurs. Nobody should feel that they can violate a plan or be careless or sloppy and get their butt saved by someone else. That said, I think most of us would do what we could, short of risking our own death (and perhaps even sometimes that!) to save somebody who got into trouble, even if it was their own fault. But I think it's not defensible to EXPECT that of anyone.