The changing Scuba Industry

[KevinNM]

Air fills are often cited as a key reason to patronize LDS's, but I've also read them described as loss leaders by the time you compare low fill prices against cost of acquiring, maintaining and running compressor banks. If people just use the LDS for fills, that's not gonna work.

I've already read of threads talking about clubs getting compressor systems that members can use; IIRC correctly, it's sort of a 'club owns it, members can use it, if you're a member you can use at your own risk' sort of thing? I wonder if this model will supplant some LDS's?

I suspect that the cost of the electricity to pump the gas exceeds the price of some places fills, much less the major costs of the compressor system. So eventually the price will need to rise if someone is largely paying the bills from fills. They also need to do things like use large banks and fill those when rates are lower at night.

I'm not sure how the OSHA/DOT regulations work in a club situation in the US. I suspect it would be painful if you really decided you needed to and would fully comply.

 

[BRT]

I suspect that the cost of the electricity to pump the gas exceeds the price of some places fills, much less the major costs of the compressor system. So eventually the price will need to rise if someone is largely paying the bills from fills. They also need to do things like use large banks and fill those when rates are lower at night.

I'm not sure how the OSHA/DOT regulations work in a club situation in the US. I suspect it would be painful if you really decided you needed to and would fully comply.

In Mexico where electricity costs more than most places in the states, dedicated tank fill places do fills for $2-3. They don't sell equipment. They don't do classes. They hydro tanks and fill tanks and seem to do fine if they have enough tanks that need filled. I don't think the electricity cost is greater than the air fill price. My 2hp compressor takes an hour to fill an empty 100. If it were running fully loaded for the entire hour that would be 2 horsepower hours. A horsepower is 750 watts. Allowing for losses lets say 1000 watts per HP or 2 kilowatt hours per tank. That costs me 10 cents. In a real expensive area it would be 50 cents.

 

[cool_hardware52]

So, if you spend enough money at your LDS, the owner will not run off with one of his students, die, retire, lose the shop to hiway expansion, or get sick; all resulting in another cclosed LDS?

Lol, Maybe, maybe not. Any business with real return can survive those challenges, an employe steps up, or they move to a nearby location etc. A business that is barely scraping by is certain to close if any of the above occur.

Tobin

 

[chillyinCanada]

And they shouldn't do it. All they can do is to lower prices within their profit margin. But if they do for me, but don't do it for you, they are screwing you over. Agree?

I don't agree. Some customers spend $1000's per year vs another who may only spend $200. Why shouldn't preferred customers receive a discount?

 

[drrich2]

In Mexico where electricity costs more than most places in the states, dedicated tank fill places do fills for $2-3. They don't sell equipment. They don't do classes. They hydro tanks and fill tanks and seem to do fine if they have enough tanks that need filled. I don't think the electricity cost is greater than the air fill price. My 2hp compressor takes an hour to fill an empty 100. If it were running fully loaded for the entire hour that would be 2 horsepower hours. A horsepower is 750 watts. Allowing for losses lets say 1000 watts per HP or 2 kilowatt hours per tank. That costs me 10 cents. In a real expensive area it would be 50 cents.

But just as you can't judge the cost of car ownership just by the cost of gas for the miles you drive, for a dive shop compressor bank, you've got to factor in cost of equipment, electricity to run it, parts and labor for maintenance and servicing, somebody's got to run it, monitor, etc..., hopefully somebody occasionally tests the air quality.

I've never run a compressor; perhaps some of you working in dive shops would care to comment on how lucrative (or not) it is?

Richard.

 

[scubafanatic]

The only epitaph I want to leave is "he never lied to us", because your reputation is really the only thing you leave behind.[/

The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. William Shakespeare

 

[admikar]

@chillyinCanada , I wasn't talking about regular customers, sale days, coupons etc. Talk was about price matching, and it's effect on business as well on customers.

 

[Wookie]

I'm not sure how the OSHA/DOT regulations work in a club situation in the US. I suspect it would be painful if you really decided you needed to and would fully comply.

The rules for using a compressor and perform fills IAW OSHA/DOT/CGA are not onerous, and are well laid out in a $39.95 manual form PSI/PCI, which you can buy easily enough. 20 minute training on your particular fill station and it's over. If you want, lock it down and don't give anyone a key that hasn't done the training. There is a requirement for training, but no requirement for who is a qualified trainer, so it's not a ball-buster.

 

[Wookie]

In Mexico where electricity costs more than most places in the states, dedicated tank fill places do fills for $2-3. They don't sell equipment. They don't do classes. They hydro tanks and fill tanks and seem to do fine if they have enough tanks that need filled. I don't think the electricity cost is greater than the air fill price. My 2hp compressor takes an hour to fill an empty 100. If it were running fully loaded for the entire hour that would be 2 horsepower hours. A horsepower is 750 watts. Allowing for losses lets say 1000 watts per HP or 2 kilowatt hours per tank. That costs me 10 cents. In a real expensive area it would be 50 cents.

You missed capital equipment, ongoing maintenance, filtration, and testing costs. A compressor (K-15, 5407) for commercial scuba duty will set you back $18,000. Banks are another $4,000. Electricians and plumbers/tubing maybe another $4-5,000. Remember, this isn't in your house, but a dive shop where the city may have some say as to who does what. A busy shop fills 100 cylinders a day 100 days a year. Someone like rainbow reef fills 200 a day 300 days a year. They have multiple compressors. Each compressor takes 2 filters minimum every 50 operating hours at about $38 bucks each. Testing is $100 per system every quarter. Then you gotta pay a guy to fill tanks. Electricity is a drop in a bucket.

 

[Wookie]

I don't agree. Some customers spend $1000's per year vs another who may only spend $200. Why shouldn't preferred customers receive a discount?

That's what preferred customer plans are all about. We gave away 1 trip free for 5 bought. Explorer Ventures has a significant discount for multiple trips per year. I think Aggressor fleet gives you free nitrox.