The changing Scuba Industry

[dmaziuk]

@dmaziuk, what was wrong, political economy or you hating it?

Us hating it: because of it I know what "communism" means. Now that I'm living on a continent where large number of people seem to not have an effing clue, every time one of them speaks I feel so much smarter and better -- all those boring PE classes are paying off in spades.

 

[mdb]

Some people seem to like paying full retail-100% markup-when they have a store that knows how to
play to the "You are a great diver, great friend" ego.

This business model still does work, and has worked for a long time.

Ralph Lauren, high end restaurants, thousand dollar handbags, they all continue to
take lots of money from lots of people for huge profit.margins. They can continue to
press the "You are special" feeling.

Some dive retailers will not change. The high margin sales model works for them and they
have a clientele that buys into it.

 

[The Chairman]

At the end of the day, do you want people to trust you or not.

Yeah... I trust them to make a living.

 

[admikar]

To try and get back to this thread. Is industry changing? Of course it is. For better or for worse? That remains to be seen.
This year, my club already have more people signing up for OW, than the whole of last year. Of course, not all of them will continue to dive and not all of them will buy equipment, but they are new members in this industry, for as long they participate.
New members will bring new demands. This will lead to new ideas. Some of them must be good, whether it's about equipment or providing service to customers.
I hear complaints that new divers tend to rent instead of buying their equipment. That does not have to be bad. People are usually more careful with their own stuff, so rental will experience more wear and tear. That must lead to replacements, leading to more business for manufacturers. More business should be good?
On the other side, there is a problem of our oceans already under strain, so more numbers are not good, right? One of my friends was shocked when she saw amount of garbage that lays on the bottom, never considering what happens with stuff we throw away. Now, she changed her holiday habits drastically regarding garbage, not trusting locals to dispose of it properly. So, some of those numbers might not be that bad.
Does this industry needs to adapt. Of course it does. Some will like it, some will not.

 

[stuartv]

Competing with price is a fool's errand and a quick road to bankruptcy. Look at the tire industry. You beat them up over prices on their tires and you've won, right? Oh hell no. That $4.00 valve stem cost them 12 cents. Life time balancing? It just keeps you coming back. I know because I retired from Goodyear. While your wheels are off, we're going to sell you brakes or this or that.
If a business can't make a decent return on their investment, then they will close. They'll put that capital to better use somewhere else.

I am not really following your point. I said "the lowest price they can and still have a sustainable business." I never suggested having prices so low that you go bankrupt.

So you are not Okay with thinking maybe somebody got a better deal, but you are okay with knowing a bunch of people from other shops got a much better deal? You don't price check because you know you are paying MSRP, which you say yourself is too high? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I think you have missed a key part of something I said about this earlier. I like this shop I'm talking about. But, I have bought almost nothing there. I do go there for all my fills, VIPs, reg servicing, etc.. And one of the reasons I like them so much is that they have never made me feel even the slightest bit like they were bothered that I bought pretty much all my stuff somewhere else. People that are price- or value-conscious can go buy their stuff online and this shop doesn't hold it against anyone. And by being that way and also by not charging some people lower prices than others, etc., they engender trust. The thing you may not be catching yet is that if someone buys something from them, it doesn't matter if you're their long lost brother if it's the first time in their shop, you're going to pay the same price AND, if you have a problem with it, they will bend over backwards to take care of it - whether you're their long lost brother or a first-timer. At the same time, they also engender trust and loyalty from people like me, who spend the bulk of our scuba money elsewhere by simply being friendly, not putting any pressure on us to buy from them, and, when they get to know you and like you, they will still bend over backwards for your problems, even on gear you bought elsewhere.

So, there are lot of different types of consumers in scuba. People like (I'd venture a guess) us in this thread who are very value conscious in our scuba purchases. And people who don't want to do a lick of research. They just want someone they trust to tell them what to buy. And all in between. I think the model of no price matching and no discounts - AND not discriminating against people who buy elsewhere - ends up making that shop extremely appealing to a really big cross-section of scuba shoppers. Ultimately, it's good for the industry and for all the locals around here.

I mean, I'm a shopper. I buy cheap (low price, high value - not crap) online, but I still go to this shop because they don't make me feel bad about buying online. In turn, when I meet locals who are looking for a shop to go to, I always tell them about this particular shop. The people who are like me can go there, still buy online if they want, and still feel like they found a shop they like and that they would go to for service, fills, etc.. including a good chance they would go there for con-ed training or for trips. The people who want more of the "just sell me whatever I need, here's my credit card" experience can also go there and feel like they found a shop they like because they are getting their gear for the same price as even the long-time shop customers who go there. And trust the shop to not sell them a pile of crap they don't need. They don't ever feel like they might be paying more just because the shop person doesn't know them and thus withholds some discretionary discount. Or that the shop is just trying to make this month's rent solely off them.

Like I said, in the long run, I think their approach is good for them and for the industry as a whole.

 

[diver0008]

in the long run, I think their approach is good for them and for the industry as a whole.

So if I understand correctly, and yours seems to be an opinion shared by others here, the customer service model is preferable to the lowest price model for the sustainability and viability of a retailer.

Stated in other terms used here, fostering trust, loyalty and adding value is of importance.

What also has become apparent to me here is that the consumer types in the diving market are no different that in other markets from an end-user perspective; there are people who haggle (negociate), and people who could not be bothered. There are people for whom the bottom line is the primary variable in a purchasing decision, and who will make efforts to meet that criteria, and others for whom factors such as creating and maintaining a reliable and mutually beneficial relationship is more important. Some people determine their needs themselves and see no other prerequisite for a sale than the price, and others for whom a knowledgable salesperson with expert reccomendations is either required, appreciated, or both.

There has been an economic truism that is as applicable here as it is in general: A sale has three components: price, quality, and speed - you can only ever deliver on 2 of them. In the present economic conditions, the big winners are those defying this rule.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You are right about the younger crowd, Wookie. Yuppies think differently than normal people They want to try something new every day. Look at their favorite shop, Trader's Joe, for example. They still have black tea and green tea, like we the normal people drink; but most of their stock is flavored tea, like Mango-Cinnamon-Spice Chai, etc. Yuppies buy this kind of stuff because this makes them feel special.

I'm not a tea drinker, nor a yuppy, but maybe they just like the taste of flavored tea more?

No need to say anything, I'll get off your lawn now.

 

[Wookie]

Meanwhile, the unsuspecting customer sill gets lured in with the $99 groupon without understanding the $500 mask, snerk, and finsles.

 

[CuzzA]

Meanwhile, the unsuspecting customer sill gets lured in with the $99 groupon without understanding the $500 mask, snerk, and finsles.

Yeah, I've seen those gimmicks too. They get nailed hard on ballast too.

 

[diver0008]

Yuppies think differently than normal people - They want to try something new every day. ... They think like kids, and kids like new toys. The more new toys, the better, and even better if you have toys other kids do not have....they are desperately trying to be different and they achieve this through different type of consumerism....This gives them more toy equivalents to boast about when they come back.

I was young once, and they will be old one day. What you said seems like a reasonable assessment.

It's quantity vs. quality.

As a young person, you try all kinds of stuff, then perhaps eventually, with experience, you figure out who you are, and what you really like. It becomes hard to do everything with adult responsibilites, so you choose and focus.

I must say though, if I knew as a younger person, what I know now as an older one, I'd have lot lot more dives under my belt (and probably a lot more money).