Hi bob,
What would happen if he got hung up....
14 minutes before the switch....
Would you know?
How?
The Buddy system and separation problems
- Thread starter Paulb2
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What would happen if he got hung up....
14 minutes before the switch....
Would you know?
How?
bluce
Registered
Uncle Pug,
I wasn't clear. We both watch each other just like you are supposed to do. But one assumes the lead as far as where to go, when to stop and look at something, etc. The we switch off. That way each diver gets a couple turns at leading, stopping where they want, etc. But you still practice good buddying. Sometimes people kind of go willy nilly down there and that's when people get separated.
Bob
I wasn't clear. We both watch each other just like you are supposed to do. But one assumes the lead as far as where to go, when to stop and look at something, etc. The we switch off. That way each diver gets a couple turns at leading, stopping where they want, etc. But you still practice good buddying. Sometimes people kind of go willy nilly down there and that's when people get separated.
Bob
I was hoping that was the case Bob and wanted to give you the chance to clarify it for the on-lookers....
Shane and I do the same thing...
Some people think that leading means being out in front but that is not really the way to buddy dive....
The lead directs the dive but both divers should be basically side by side...
We are able to allow greater separation because our light beams keep us in constant passive communication....
And the lights enable us to immeadiately engage active communictation through light signals....
This brings another good point...
when you buddy up - stay shoulder side with your buddy - tyhat way one can see you - it is very hard to see a buddy who is above and behind you... that's just a first step to making life easier on both of you.
When I dive we usually have a purpose for the dive and we can go do that - then look at things as we move about - but we always stay in close proximity and naturally we have lights for com.
Big T
when you buddy up - stay shoulder side with your buddy - tyhat way one can see you - it is very hard to see a buddy who is above and behind you... that's just a first step to making life easier on both of you.
When I dive we usually have a purpose for the dive and we can go do that - then look at things as we move about - but we always stay in close proximity and naturally we have lights for com.
Big T
Hi Big T
I am still new to diving and the different forms of underwater communication, so I have a few questions if that's ok
Just so I have a clear understanding, I would be most grateful if you could give me a brief description of how light can be used for communication better than hand signals. Assuming that practising a safe buddy system means being able to clearly see a buddies hand signal (during a typical day time dive) at any point during a dive, why use light at all for signalling.
Like sign language, light is a form of visual communication and both require a buddy to be looking a the right direction, yes?
How effective could using lights be in a high panic situation to get instant attention from a buddy to
1. Get attention
2. To operate light equipment
I Look forward to hearing you thoughts
Paul
I am still new to diving and the different forms of underwater communication, so I have a few questions if that's ok
Just so I have a clear understanding, I would be most grateful if you could give me a brief description of how light can be used for communication better than hand signals. Assuming that practising a safe buddy system means being able to clearly see a buddies hand signal (during a typical day time dive) at any point during a dive, why use light at all for signalling.
Like sign language, light is a form of visual communication and both require a buddy to be looking a the right direction, yes?
How effective could using lights be in a high panic situation to get instant attention from a buddy to
1. Get attention
2. To operate light equipment
I Look forward to hearing you thoughts
Paul
Food for thought on entanglement. True story that we relate to all of our students.
A local DM was at the local puddle. I don't remember exactly what he was doing but I believe students were in the vicinity and he was performing a "quick" chore. The meat of the story is he became entangled in (I believe) a marker buoy line. Should have been no problem right? Evidently it was tangled around his tank and he couldn't free himself. No one was with him at the time and he panicked when he couldn't free himself. He dropped his regulator and drowned. Luckily someone (on shore) noticed that something was wrong and rescued/revived him. Probably wouldn't be so embarassing for him except for his depth. He could get his eyes out of the water but was tied at the right depth to prevent him from getting his mouth or nose above water to breathe after he lost the regulator. All he had to do was:
1) Take off his bc (and weight belt), as you stated and he would be free
2) Put his snorkel in his mouth, he could have stayed there all day
3) Had a buddy along to untangle him
My point is that even "good", "experienced" divers can panic and it doesn't have to be in deep water or a "technical" situation. Luckily this one lived to be embarassed about the incident. Rumor has it he didn't even tell his wife he had drowned.
Ber
A local DM was at the local puddle. I don't remember exactly what he was doing but I believe students were in the vicinity and he was performing a "quick" chore. The meat of the story is he became entangled in (I believe) a marker buoy line. Should have been no problem right? Evidently it was tangled around his tank and he couldn't free himself. No one was with him at the time and he panicked when he couldn't free himself. He dropped his regulator and drowned. Luckily someone (on shore) noticed that something was wrong and rescued/revived him. Probably wouldn't be so embarassing for him except for his depth. He could get his eyes out of the water but was tied at the right depth to prevent him from getting his mouth or nose above water to breathe after he lost the regulator. All he had to do was:
1) Take off his bc (and weight belt), as you stated and he would be free
2) Put his snorkel in his mouth, he could have stayed there all day
3) Had a buddy along to untangle him
My point is that even "good", "experienced" divers can panic and it doesn't have to be in deep water or a "technical" situation. Luckily this one lived to be embarassed about the incident. Rumor has it he didn't even tell his wife he had drowned.
Ber
Ber Rabbit,
The DM story just shows what we have been positing that a card does not mean experience. Your 3 step solution is valid. Why did he not do it? Panic is a unexpected beast but in this situation he should have been able to handle it. So he has his DM, so what? Goes to show that doff and don of equipment is a valid skill to learn on all levels. Lines do not discriminate, any level diver can get entangled. And yes, a buddy would come in handy but a diver should also be independent in minor situations.
The DM story just shows what we have been positing that a card does not mean experience. Your 3 step solution is valid. Why did he not do it? Panic is a unexpected beast but in this situation he should have been able to handle it. So he has his DM, so what? Goes to show that doff and don of equipment is a valid skill to learn on all levels. Lines do not discriminate, any level diver can get entangled. And yes, a buddy would come in handy but a diver should also be independent in minor situations.
From what I've heard this guy was an experienced DM, it was just his day to panic I guess. We had a student get their 1st stage hung up in a bundle of wire that was (for some odd reason) attached to a marker buoy line in the same quarry. All came out well, the student ended up with a facial scratch but dealt with the entanglement in a calm manner. The wire hazard was then removed.
Just because your training leads someone else to believe you should be able to handle something doesn't mean you can't have an "off" day and panic at something that wouldn't normally affect you. I don't know what was going on in his mind and I'm not going to speculate.
You're absolutely right, the doff and don is a good skill for all levels to learn. That story is what we use to illustrate to the students why it's a good thing to be able to do.
I also agree divers should be able to handle minor situations themselves. Just knowing you have a buddy there to help you if needed can eliminate panic in minor situations though. I've been badly tangled in an old buoy line (minus the buoy) in that quarry. Even though I freed myself before my buddy (not my regular one mind you) noticed something was wrong it was comforting to know that if I couldn't free myself someone was there to do it for me. I was hog-tied to a Pontiac, my legs were tied together then tied around my first stage. HINT: When the annoying long grass you're kicking through feels like it's tying your legs together, look at your legs. That might not be grass wrapped around them.
Remember to think while diving!
Ber
Just because your training leads someone else to believe you should be able to handle something doesn't mean you can't have an "off" day and panic at something that wouldn't normally affect you. I don't know what was going on in his mind and I'm not going to speculate.
You're absolutely right, the doff and don is a good skill for all levels to learn. That story is what we use to illustrate to the students why it's a good thing to be able to do.
I also agree divers should be able to handle minor situations themselves. Just knowing you have a buddy there to help you if needed can eliminate panic in minor situations though. I've been badly tangled in an old buoy line (minus the buoy) in that quarry. Even though I freed myself before my buddy (not my regular one mind you) noticed something was wrong it was comforting to know that if I couldn't free myself someone was there to do it for me. I was hog-tied to a Pontiac, my legs were tied together then tied around my first stage. HINT: When the annoying long grass you're kicking through feels like it's tying your legs together, look at your legs. That might not be grass wrapped around them.
Remember to think while diving!
Ber
I have to vote with Devilfish here -
DM does not mean anything in my book - you can get through those classes with very little dives and not a whole lot of skills to show for it. This sounds like his skills were not up to it?!
just my opinion,
Big T
DM does not mean anything in my book - you can get through those classes with very little dives and not a whole lot of skills to show for it. This sounds like his skills were not up to it?!
just my opinion,
Big T
Lost Yooper
Guest
I agree. Simply having a piece of plastic in your wallet doesn't necessarily mean squat. I recently went back to PADI, after years of being away from them, to get my DM. I really don't place much weight on those certs up to and including rec instructor.
I just shake my head at the prestige *some* think they deserve for simply having a DM or instructor cert. in their back pocket
. Drives me crazy sometimes.
Mike
I just shake my head at the prestige *some* think they deserve for simply having a DM or instructor cert. in their back pocket
. Drives me crazy sometimes.Mike
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