The Beginner's Mixture

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vladimir, I stand corrected.

Recreational dive computers were 'born' between 25-30 years ago. I'm not sure I'd call them 'commonplace' in 1989, but they were available. Perhaps commonly available in certain parts of the world...
 
Will Nitrox take the place of Air, as the preferred "beginners mixture?" Why or Why not?

Cant see why. Its twice the price, more effort to get hold of and for entry level offers no advantages at all given they're ending dives due to air consumption as opposed to no stop limits.
 
it_mike:
Recreational dive computers were 'born' between 25-30 years ago. I'm not sure I'd call them 'commonplace' in 1989, but they were available. Perhaps commonly available in certain parts of the world...

The EDGE came out in 1983, I think the DecoBrain came out a year or two before. They were rare until about 1986 or 87. By 1989, most divers were still using tables, but computers were common. By that time, hockey puck computers were seen quite often.
 
OK, but what is the foreseeable future? Who would have thought twenty years ago that computers would become the standard? Now they're on nearly every set of rental gear, and pushed to every student. As I understand it, we now have OW classes that require a computer (SDI).

As eCCR's move to further computer control, I expect the training levels to drop, as well as the price. As to your second point regarding rebreather 'support', what do you do now, in those remote/primitive locations, when your reg fails?

BTW, personal computers you hold in your hand were 'science fiction' just 30 years ago...now look at the iPhone.

...well duh, if my reg were to fail in the 'wilderness' I'd swap out to my complete back-up reg set....... sooo, I suppose you're suggesting I bring along a back-up rebreather ???

...also, reg technology has been a 'mature' / proven technology for a LONG time...you can easily go diving with a 30 year old reg, the improvements haven't been very radical over the years.....whereas nobody would dream of using a 30 year old computer !

...remember back in the 50's....it was forecast 'flying cars' were the wave of the future ? ...or remember how the world reveled in the promise of endless applications of nuclear energy, we know how THAT turned out!
 
Did you know that PADI is even finally switching to making computers more of a focus in the OW course? The new manual will have the tables as an appendix. An optional module to teach, but computer planning and usage will be emphasized in chapters 4 and 5. SDI has been doing that for awhile. I don't know much about SSI, but I think they might follow the same approach?
 
Are you stating dive computers were commonplace in 1989?
I had a Dacor MicroBrain in 1988 or so, certainly by 1989, and I was never at the vanguard of the sport.
vladimir, I stand corrected.

Recreational dive computers were 'born' between 25-30 years ago. I'm not sure I'd call them 'commonplace' in 1989, but they were available. Perhaps commonly available in certain parts of the world...

The EDGE came out in 1983, I think the DecoBrain came out a year or two before. They were rare until about 1986 or 87. By 1989, most divers were still using tables, but computers were common. By that time, hockey puck computers were seen quite often.
The EDGE and the Microbrain both came out in 1983, they were soon followed by the SUUNTO SME/ML and OCEANIC/US DIVERS Datamaster computers in 1985. Computers were consider voodoo devices by most divers and diving agencies until the AAUS convened a workshop in 1989 to examine them (Lang, M.A. and Hamilton, Jr R.W. (1989). Proceedings of the AAUS Dive Computer Workshop. United States: USC Catalina Marine Science Center. pp. 231http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/4242.). It was amazing how after that workshop the clouds cleared and computers became OK devices almost instantaneously.
 
...or remember how the world reveled in the promise of endless applications of nuclear energy, we know how THAT turned out!

Boy, do I ever! See Nuclear Power and its Role in Global Electricity and Energy

Even today, the US has over 100 operating nuclear power plants and combined they generate about 19% of our power and about 29% of the world nuclear total.

France is far more advanced: they use nuclear to generate 78% of their needs. True, their needs are about 1/2 of ours but still, that's a huge percentage.

Richard
 
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Will Nitrox take the place of Air, as the preferred "beginners mixture?" Why or Why not?

I've been lurking this thread to read how all you smart guys think, but while the arguements float on and off topic, there's a few points I'm not getting -- (begging your pardon if I've missed them).

1. Why WOULD you want to give a beginner so many more things to worry about?

2. Would putting newbies on Nitrox give them a careless attitude towards learning proper breathing techniques and comfort in the ocean? It wasn't until no-deco time ran out before my air that I realized I'd become more efficient.

3. Aren't beginners (especially beginners that go straight from OW to AOW) more likely to 'forget what they are doing' and go below the 100' (30m) mark?

4. Seems like it is hard enough to get youngsters to take the time to understand the tables and theories behind the bubbles - seems like Nitrox would push them that much more faster to the blind acceptance of a computer.

DISCLAIMER - speaking from personal experience which has no basis in real fact
 
I've been lurking this thread to read how all you smart guys think, but while the arguements float on and off topic, there's a few points I'm not getting -- (begging your pardon if I've missed them).

1. Why WOULD you want to give a beginner so many more things to worry about?

2. Would putting newbies on Nitrox give them a careless attitude towards learning proper breathing techniques and comfort in the ocean? It wasn't until no-deco time ran out before my air that I realized I'd become more efficient.

3. Aren't beginners (especially beginners that go straight from OW to AOW) more likely to 'forget what they are doing' and go below the 100' (30m) mark?

4. Seems like it is hard enough to get youngsters to take the time to understand the tables and theories behind the bubbles - seems like Nitrox would push them that much more faster to the blind acceptance of a computer.

DISCLAIMER - speaking from personal experience which has no basis in real fact

Hi UsryTregre,

As a prelude, I wasn't trying to sell Nitrox to new divers. I did however feel that it would be interesting to post the question.

Let me take a stab at your questions:

1. I suppose this largely depends upon what the parameters of training are in the first-place. Personally, I cover Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures in detail, so there's no mystery to mixed gas (Air is also a MG :) . The characteristics of each gas and their dangers are covered, as are the deco tables in detail (including Nitrox). The course is twice the duration of many other OW type courses, so task loading is not a problem. Nitrox is not a whole lot different than using other gases, although there are some equipment considerations and exposure limitations. Divers who take a Nitrox course are often disappointed that there wasn't more to it; it's certainly not difficult.

2. The depth limitation imposed on a new diver and his/her gas consumption are valid considerations that many have discussed in this thread. These are of course valid. What the depth limitation will be for a new diver in the future, is yet to be determined. A new diver use to be restricted to a recommended depth of 130 FSW. The gas capacity available to new divers has increased over the years and it's hard to predict what new technologies will bring in the next 25 or 30 years.

3. I train my divers for the recommended depth maximums of 60 FSW (OW), or 130 FSW (Advanced). It's difficult to say what depths the average diver will dive to after they are certified. They are competent before they get the card to the depths noted. It's impossible to say what happens after they leave, which is one reason why my programs are the duration they are.

4. Again this depends upon the training. At age 12, I would have fallen into the youngster category, but was able to absorb the required material. I was diving Heliox at 19 as a Navy diver, so I think age has less to do with it than experience and training.

My students have to prove competence without using a computer. I realize this does not reflect everyone's training methods, but 30 years from now who can tell what training will be necessary?

The make-up of Nitrox provides the diver with a higher degree of safety at shallower depths than Air. If you want to dive to depths over the Nitrox envelope, Air is commonly used (within it's safety envelope). Each gas has its advantages and disadvantages; you choose the right tool for the job.

There has been an excellent case made on this thread against Nitrox as a "beginner's mixture" (much of which I agree with). Personally I don't see that the depth restriction of Nitrox and the additional costs involved make Nitrox worthwhile. Unless I'm doing a lot of shallow diving on a live aboard, I stay with air. I often venture deeper than Nitrox safely allows. :)
 
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Boy, do I ever! See Nuclear Power and its Role in Global Electricity and Energy

Even today, the US has over 100 operating nuclear power plants and combined they generate about 19% of our power and about 29% of the world nuclear total.

France is far more advanced: they use nuclear to generate 78% of their needs. True, their needs are about 1/2 of ours but still, that's a huge percentage.

Richard

...Richard, the last commercial US nuclear reactor went on line in 1996 ( 13 yrs ago )...and the last US commercial US nuclear power plant construction start date was 1977 ( 32 yrs ago ). Perhaps you heard about 'Chernobyl' ? (that's Russian for 'little incident' ... :) or Three Mile Island ???

...are you aware a number of European countries have over recent years decided to phase out their existing nuclear reactors and 'go' completely non-nuclear ?

.....also, remember, nuclear reactors are essentially plutonium factories....and are being used by lots of hostile/unstable countries for nuclear weapons projects.....the next 2 most likely places the US is likely to be involved in a major shooting war will be with either North Korea or Iran...all over their flirtation with nuclear power. (and if you'll remember, Israel--1981, and then, of course, the US...took out the Iraqi nuclear threat...andf just 2 years ago Israel took out a secret Syrian nuclear reactor/weapons factory...that was built by North Korea and financed by Iran.)

Fundamentally, I'm not anti-nuclear...and I believe it's likely the only realistic solution to cope with humanities future power requirements will be substantial nuclear (fission) power (commercial fusion power will always be 50 years away from whatever day 'today' happens to be) .....and fossil fuels will soon be depleted or be too dangerous to continue using (global warming) ..... but nuclear power has resulted in lots of unexpected negative consequences.

....back to the subject at hand, it is my opinion that humanity will go 'back' to fission nuclear power out of pure desperation.....it is the only known/proven technology humanity has to meet it's massive/growing energy needs, that also avoids the global warming issue.......however, divers are not desperate to replace OC/nitrox scuba with rebreathers......saving a little $ on Nitrox fills by using closed circuit is not a problem that's even in the same galaxy, magnitude-wise, as the issue of saving the planet (global warming).
 
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