Ten Foot/3 Metre Stops in Heavy Swells?

[battles2a5]

I posted the original question to find out the DIR approach to no-deco safety stops in 4-6 foot waves. I have already received a number of useful answers to this question. As to the relative drawbacks of a DIR approach vs. a non-DIR approach...

It is not for me to say what this forum is for, however I do note that we have forums like the Advanced forum and the Hogarthian forum where people discuss DIR and non-DIR approaches side-by-side. For example, the HOG forum has a long thread debating whether to wrap a long hose around the neck or stow it with a bungee.

So, I am not saying you are wrong about the purpose of this forum. I'm new here and I don't know. But I do know that for my personal purposes, I am ok with this form simply explaining DIR, while our other forums debate it.

Sorry for all the hijacks Reg, but I'm glad you got your question answered.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Sorry for all the hijacks Reg, but I'm glad you got your question answered.

I value the help I have received and the education I am receiving observing the debate.

When I step back a bit, I see that procedures and choices are a little like icebergs: the rationale or reason the novice understands is only 10% of the truth, the other 90% is a foundation of many years of experience dealing with unusual situations and failures the novice cannot anticipate.

 

[JeffG]

I agree with Jeff G (and I find I tend to agree with Jeff more often than not)

Ha! LOL

that all things considered, it makes more sense to carry one piece of equipment that will get the job done. But that is premised on that one piece of equipment getting that critical job done right and when that is in doubt; it is time to bring out the specialized equipment.

The one issue about that is where does it end? The most extreme version is the diver looking like some Christmas tree from hell (of which...I'm sure someone could find a picture on the internet LOL)

Mind you...this is all beyond the scope of this thread.

It frankly irritates me that the ultra right wing kool-aid drinking segment of what they narrowly define as "DIR" keeps trying to assert ownership to the whole DIR forum. Then they make it worse by whining when the more centered and balanced DIR divers who have the experience and wisdom to adapt non GUE approved equipment or techniques that really work in local conditions do not agree with their version of the party line.

What you find irritating...I find amusing. I love train wrecks

 

[deepstops]

The one issue about that is where does it end? The most extreme version is the diver looking like some Christmas tree from hell (of which...I'm sure someone could find a picture on the internet LOL)

What you find irritating...I find amusing. I love train wrecks

Will this do??

 

[shoredivr]

That pic again....! This time I noticed he has a scooter.

 

[TSandM]

I don't have an opinion on this subject, as I haven't been taught anything and I don't dive in the described conditions (and never will!), but I will offer that there have been at least a couple of very brisk and animated discussions on the Quest list regarding drift deco versus deco on the upline, and it has sometimes appeared that the opinions break down by region (and by implication, by regional conditions and practices). It was very clear that there is no DIR bottom line on how deco should be done, and even the "big guys" can argue about it.

I do believe that we are encouraged to be thinking divers, and it may well be that such things as surface conditions, boat practices and equipment/staff availability, distance offshore or from other boats, etc., need to be taken into account in deciding how, or if, one is going to proceed.

 

[rjack321]

Your brand of DIR assumes that you will always somehow be attached to the wreck on ascent. Your brand assumes that nothing will ever go wrong to change that. My brand recognizes that a floating deco is always a possibility.

Your brand can handle those conditions only if things go right. My brand thinks beyond that.

This is THE single biggest issue with Jon lines. Its typically not that big a deal to hang on the anchor/mooring. And no Reg, nobody cares about your trim while you do it. Maybe less than ideal, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

But if this is your "plan" then you need some alternative for when you don't get back to the anchor. And if you have to have that (probably bag+drifting) contingency anyway, why not use it in the first place?

The one good example for hanging on the anchor was originally mentioned earlier, drifting effs with established shipping in a narrow channel. A common bad reason to hang on the anchor would be so that your cattle boat of 20 divers can dive a site vs. having 2 groups of 3 do a drifting deco. Cause when a couple of those 20 divers do not make it back to the mooring its a great CF.

Ps, Brian your brand of DIR needs a Jersey reel

 

[Rainer]

And if you have to have that (probably bag+drifting) contingency anyway, why not use it in the first place?

In the MA area, where I used to dive, all boats established moorings (where possible; or just tie-in). Deco was always on a line from the boat to the wreck/reef (but who dives reefs?). All divers are prepared for the possibility of drift deco if necessary (had to do it myself when the boat broke free once), but it certainly was never the preference. Why? Three easy reasons.

(1) Shipping channels.
(2) Increased risk of getting lost. Conditions in the NE just aren't as favorable for boats chasing down multiple teams. Getting lost is both easier and less easy to deal with (e.g. cold temps) than say in FL.
(3) And my favorite, gill nets. Very scary.

It's just easier to tie in. Doesn't mean people aren't capable of shooting and riding up a bag (at least the people I dove with), but I must say, I felt more comfortable coming up in sight of that mooring line than the time I was hanging on a bag hoping the boat would be in sight when I surfaced after it broke free (it was).

 

[battles2a5]

This is THE single biggest issue with Jon lines. Its typically not that big a deal to hang on the anchor/mooring. And no Reg, nobody cares about your trim while you do it. Maybe less than ideal, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

But if this is your "plan" then you need some alternative for when you don't get back to the anchor. And if you have to have that (probably bag+drifting) contingency anyway, why not use it in the first place?

The back-up plan is to blow a bag and tie off to the wreck. If you can't find the line or if the hook gets pulled, the captain knows exactly where to find you. Drift deco away from an anchored boat is a last-ditch option.

 

[rjack321]

Conditions in the NE just aren't as favorable for boats chasing down multiple teams. Getting lost is both easier and less easy to deal with (e.g. cold temps) than say in FL.

How many people you have in the water at a time?