Technical training

[Steve R]

Well...lets see.

With GUE, you are pretty much guaranteed a good instructor. (Might have to talk to a couple to see which one suits your personality the best.) One class (tech 1), covers everything you will need. (Deco/Helium) Since you will have to go through (and pass) DIR-f class, you can reasonably be assured that you will adequate skill in the water.

With TDI...you will have to take a mishmash of classes. Some instructors will force you to take more classes than others. (Think extended range here). The instructor quality is highly variable. Anything from a great instructor to a blithering idiot.

Which one would you choose?

Well said my friend.

I concur, the instructor variable is just nutts. Blithering idiot? lol, yup. Too many of those

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hello All;

I am planning to continue my training in the direction of technical diving. I was looking at several agencies IANTD, TDI and GUE. For what I have seen GUE seems to have the toughest requirements, which I don't think is a bad thing.

Besides the quality of the instructor would you recommend GUE?

Thanks;

First off, it would help to understand your goals ... "technical diving" is a term that covers a wide range of diving styles and applications.

Are you interested in diving wrecks? Caves? Use a rebreather? All of these (and much more) fall under the aegis of technical diving ... and not all of it is compatible with what you will learn at any one of those agencies.

While I am not as experienced as others here in the realm of technical diving, I have had some training from all three of the agencies you mentioned above. You are correct in your statement that GUE has the most rigorous requirements ... that is, in part, due to their emphasis on a unified team style of diving. While all of those agencies will specify gear requirements that are similar, GUE makes the least allowances for variants from their specifications ... and only when the variants make sense to the goals of the dive (as opposed to "personal preferences"). That style of diving doesn't appeal to a lot of people ... while to others it makes a great deal of sense. You have to decide, based on your own personal diving goals, if it makes sense to you.

While you're at it, I would also recommend you take a close look at NAUI Tech ... they are positioned somewhat between the "common sense/personal preference" approach of IANTD/TDI and the "everyone will do things the same way" approach practiced by GUE. From a gear perspective, GUE and NAUI are almost identical.

This really isn't a topic for the new diver's forum ... and a thorough discussion could take volumes of threads to cover properly. I would recommend that you spend some time in the Technical Diving forum, and ask more specific questions based on why you want to become a technical diver. Everyone will have personal preferences, based on their own training and experience. Mine is to try different classes from different agencies and instructors ... to provide a broad basis of experience and perspective.

FWIW - there are excellent and less excellent instructors in all of the agencies. GUE seems to provide the most consistency, in part due to the small size of the organization and the limited number of available instructors. Being in Florida, you will have better access to GUE instruction than most of the rest of the world, and that may be an advantage if you choose to go in that direction.

Best of luck ... take some time, consider your goals carefully, and definitely invest some effort into researching and interviewing whatever technical instructor you choose before signing up for the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

While you're at it, I would also recommend you take a close look at NAUI Tech ... they are positioned somewhat between the "common sense/personal preference" approach of IANTD/TDI and the "everyone will do things the same way" approach practiced by GUE. From a gear perspective, GUE and NAUI are almost identical.

Gear part yea...but I wouldn't be surprised that the instructor variability would be close to TDI. Which means its all over the map.

and you can interview these instructors until your blue in the face, but people don't know, what they don't know.

By the time they figure out that their instructor was a loser, there is not much that can be done. Or better yet, they take instruction from a loser and then spend their entire diving career telling others how good his is, because they never had been exposed to someone that actually has a clue.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well said my friend.

I concur, the instructor variable is just nutts. Blithering idiot? lol, yup. Too many of those

With all due respect ... that's the sort of response that continues to give GUE a bad reputation. You guys are both way too experienced to not be able to provide rational answers to the question without resorting to name-calling.

It's interesting that, in my experience, I have yet to hear a GUE instructor resort to a response like that. It's not a very convincing argument ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Gear part yea...but I wouldn't be surprised that the instructor variability would be close to TDI. Which means its all over the map.

and you can interview these instructors until your blue in the face, but people don't know, what they don't know.

By the time they figure out that their instructor was a loser, there is not much that can be done. Or better yet, they take instruction from a loser and then spend their entire diving career telling others how good his is, because they never had been exposed to someone that actually has a clue.

Perhaps, but it's telling that our local GUE shop (the one I used to work for) keeps hiring NAUI instructors too ... there are currently two NAUI Tech instructors on their staff as well as a GUE instructor. I think if it were as bad as you say, they wouldn't be doing that.

Out of curiousity, have you taken any NAUI Tech classes? And if not, from what knowledge do you offer your comments?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

With all due respect ... that's the sort of response that continues to give GUE a bad reputation. You guys are both way too experienced to not be able to provide rational answers to the question without resorting to name-calling.

Well, I could name names. I know of a great TDi instructor. I also know of another that faked his instructors credentials. (When caught...he was just forced to take the instructors class again.) In TDI trimix...the student is required to do valve drills. What does it say, when the instructor is unable to do them himself.


Now...some diver in Alberta looks for a tech instructor. Does a search for TDI instructors. Whats the odds of him/her getting the good one or the bad one?

It's interesting that, in my experience, I have yet to hear a GUE instructor resort to a response like that. It's not a very convincing argument ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

good thing I'm not a GUE instructor then.

 

[PerroneFord]

Again,

I guess I am just spoiled. However, in my local community, there is a pretty good grapevine that talks about the local technical instruction. Getting plugged in is not that hard. You can ask 100 people in this area who the best 5 cave instructors are, and more than likely a few names will show up on everyone's list.

If I was asking that same question about diving lake superior, or diving out of Morehead, NC, or diving on CCR, I can bet that certain names would keep popping up. This is what I mean by doing homework. Don't interview instructors until later in the process. Interview divers you respect and trust, and ask their opinions. Get in the water and dive with them. Dive with the potential instructor if you can. I spent the better part of a year figuring out who I wanted to teach my technical instruction. I came up with about half a dozen names. And one by one, I am getting my instruction from those people.

I have heard many positive stories about GUE instructors. But I have also heard some horror stories from people in a position to know better. So while the consistency of material and instruction from GUE may be more even than in other agencies, personalty conflicts, and other issues still creep in, and sometimes things just don't "click" in all classes. I was very pleased with my GUE instruction so I cannot complain. But I have also been very pleased with my IANTD instruction. And I will quite likely be pleased with my NACD instruction this weekend.

GUE is a great game, but it's not the only one in town.

 

[JeffG]

Perhaps, but it's telling that our local GUE shop (the one I used to work for) keeps hiring NAUI instructors too ... there are currently two NAUI Tech instructors on their staff as well as a GUE instructor. I think if it were as bad as you say, they wouldn't be doing that.

I wasn't saying they were bad. I was just guessing that the instructor variability would be greater than GUE's.

Out of curiousity, have you taken any NAUI Tech classes? And if not, from what knowledge do you offer your comments?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The last half of my comment was generic. Not pointed to necessarily to NAUI.

I have taken courses from a NAUI/TDI instructor. (But the cert ended up being TDI) Does that count?

I am also a big fan of AG's.

If I was going in blind...I would pick NAUI over TDI. But I don't think that would guaranty me a great education. (but my odds may be better)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If I was going in blind...I would pick NAUI over TDI. But I don't think that would guaranty me a great education. (but my odds may be better)

Fair enough ... but by the time one gains adequate diving experience to start down a tech path, there's no reason to go in blind. You'll have enough of a diving context to do some homework and ask some good questions.

Perrone Ford's advice is well put ... and good advice for anyone considering technical training.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Steve R]

With all due respect ... that's the sort of response that continues to give GUE a bad reputation. You guys are both way too experienced to not be able to provide rational answers to the question without resorting to name-calling.

It's interesting that, in my experience, I have yet to hear a GUE instructor resort to a response like that. It's not a very convincing argument ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

First of all, Bob, you called me a GUE diver, I did not, so it has nothing to do with any perceived bad reputation that GUE has, and everything to do with your attitude towards the agency. Get your facts straight.

What's more, my comment is very valid, and I have a fair amount of info to back that up.

As Jeff says, by design they're all over the board, which can be good, but more often than not, it's a bad thing.

And that's a rational, factual and responsible post.