Question Teaching OW with backplate and wing from the very beginning ?

[boulderjohn]

Another thing to consider. One of the top reasons that many get certified is for a single/once-in-a-lifetime vacation dive trip. The BC that is most available in the majority of resorts and dive rental shops is the jacket BC, so it makes more sense for them to have learned in it.

I went to Roatan this fall, and I did two weeks of diving, one week from shore and one week from a liveaboard. When I went to set up my gear for that first week, I was horrified to realize I had left my single tank adapter at home, so I could not assemble my BP/W. I had a day before the first scheduled dive, and I had more than a week before the liveaboard. I did everything I could think of to replace that STA or find some other suitable replacement. Employees where I was staying tried to help, calling around the island for anyone who could help me. There is an entire thread in the Roatan section of ScubaBoard detailing my plight.

I finally gave up. I rented a jacket BCD at the shore-based operation, the only model they had. Even given a week's notice, the liveaboard was unable to help, and I rented the only BCD they had--a jacket, of course.

The dive operation I regularly used in South Florida did have two, and only two, BP/Ws in their rental gear, so my friends who came to visit were able to use them. All the rest were jacket BCDs. That shop was a GUE instructor development center, and it sold Halcyon gear. The sales floor, however, was dominated by ScubaPro gear, including BCDs and Seawing fins. When my friend lost a fin getting on their boat and we went into the shop to get new fins, we could not find any suitable blade fins with wide sidewalls (needed for some advanced kicks), and we had to go to another shop in town to get a pair.

 

[Grantt]

I did my OW class in a BP/W and still dive that way today. I wouldn't require it for recreational dive classes, but I do recommend it.

@boulderjohn, what kind of singles wing do you use? I have use a few different ones and have yet to need a STA. I see them referenced and for sale, but haven't seen the need for one yet. Just curious mate.

 

[Boarderguy]

I went to Roatan this fall, and I did two weeks of diving, one week from shore and one week from a liveaboard. When I went to set up my gear for that first week, I was horrified to realize I had left my single tank adapter at home, so I could not assemble my BP/W. I had a day before the first scheduled dive, and I had more than a week before the liveaboard. I did everything I could think of to replace that STA or find some other suitable replacement. Employees where I was staying tried to help, calling around the island for anyone who could help me. There is an entire thread in the Roatan section of ScubaBoard detailing my plight.

I finally gave up. I rented a jacket BCD at the shore-based operation, the only model they had.

Why not just loop your cam bands through the plate? An AL80 should be fine without the STA, may have a very slight roll, but not enough to justify a rental jacket. This is of course assuming your plate has slots for the cam bands and not dedicated to use of an STA or doubles.

 

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn, what kind of singles wing do you use? I have use a few different ones and have yet to need a STA. I see them referenced and for sale, but haven't seen the need for one yet. Just curious mate.

I do most of my diving in doubles, so it is much, much easier to slap a STA on the BP than it is to thread cambands through the wing.

Why not just loop your cam bands through the plate? An AL80 should be fine without the STA, may have a very slight roll, but not enough to justify a rental jacket. This is of course assuming your plate has slots for the cam bands and not dedicated to use of an STA or doubles.

Since the STA has the cam bands, I did not have cam bands. either.

 

[dmaziuk]

It’s been way too hot recently to wear snickers, but it might be satisfying to have all that chocolate squishing through your toes

Note to self: next time say "crocs".

 

[Etmutt]

I teach all in backplate bcd, from start. There isn't really an option for my student for rental gear, so I ve to provide.

Backplate are super convenient for me, because I know they will fit anyone. So i don't need to own 3 BCD of each size.

All my BCD have adjustable strap so so only the croch strap needs some adjustments at the beginning of the course. I also leave the gear with the student from beginning to end of the course, so only one adjustments session is needed. I give it to them at the beginning of the first pool session and take it back at the end of the certifying dive. It makes my logistics easy and it teaches them basic equipment caring.

I honestly don't know why dive center don't rent backplate by default. they are nearly indestructible, easy to maintain and are one size fits all.

 

[Ted Judah]

How would you learn to wear snickers after walking aroung in boots?

I'd rather wear Almond Joy.

 

[Ted Judah]

No, you just get one and go diving with it.
You might need to have someone show you how to set it up, or not. There are a ton of you tube videos showing set up, but it’s not rocket science. All it is is a piece of metal on your back held on with two shoulder straps and a waist strap, how complicated does it need to be?
Getting everything adjusted for the first time is perhaps the biggest thing, but after that you just throw it on and jump in.

Ironically, I know more about rocket science than b/w diving! I have questions. I had never seen a backplate/wing stetup until just a few months ago. Is the philosophy of it to streamline and simplify as well as standardize equipment for emergency situations? That is my takeaway, correct? Are weight-belts used? Are there means of attaching weights to a backplate? Wings are bladders that attach to the plate somehow? Bladders in different sizes depending on wetsuit thickness / buoyancy? In the event your buddy needs air, you give up your regulator and then you use the octopus which is hanging by a necklace, is that correct? Can you direct me to more information, please?

 

[SpaceCat]

Ironically, I know more about rocket science than b/w diving! I have questions. I had never seen a backplate/wing stetup until just a few months ago. Is the philosophy of it to streamline and simplify as well as standardize equipment for emergency situations? That is my takeaway, correct? Are weight-belts used? Are there means of attaching weights to a backplate? Wings are bladders that attach to the plate somehow? Bladders in different sizes depending on wetsuit thickness / buoyancy? In the event your buddy needs air, you give up your regulator and then you use the octopus which is hanging by a necklace, is that correct? Can you direct me to more information, please?

Check out this thread for a starter guide. Info - Beginners Guide To BP/W

As far as where the regulator lives, that isn't related to the BCD at all. You have the same options as with a jacket BCD, either from a D ring on the shoulder strap or on a necklace. There are also other options like the dual inflator hose/alternate air source, which can be added to a BP/W, though I don't personally use them.

Edit to add more: While some people use the backplate to standardize where things are, not everyone does. There are a ton of different add-ons, configurations, etc. If you like standardization, I suggest checking out DIR/GUE. I don't know much about them, but they seem big into standardization from what I can tell.

As far as weights, I personally have two trim pockets added onto the plate and wear a weight belt if I am require additional weight. There are also add-ons you can get for integrated pockets, or weight harnesses.

The best thing about BP/W is it is a clean slate to set up how you want it. It is endlessly customizable.

Edit for on topic response: I don't think that mandating that courses be taught in BP/W is a great idea. I think it should be a more available option and shops should be more supportive of it, but I don't see trying to teach someone in a BP/W that is going to then turn around and only have access to a jacket on their vacation dives. Yes, how to dive is the same, and BCDs work about the same way, however I think veteran divers often forget that new (especially very infrequent) divers get uncomfortable under water with any small change. Not practicing with what they use causes stress. Not to mention, some divers Love the feeling of the "warm hug" that the jacket gives you.

 

[The Chairman]

I liked my Zeagle Express Tech but soon ditched it for a generic BP/W. I didn't like that the Express Tech was sort of a proprietary configuration. I like that a generic backplate will accommodate a generic harness, and many backplates and wings will fit each other. I suppose this is exactly why traditional BC manufacturers would be loath to transition to manufacturing more generic pieces.

I just put a generic wing from DGX on mine. Fit just fine.