I did that including using the Fenzy since early 70's. When I took my "Basic Diver" course in 84, we were trained in horse collars. I bought a US Divers jacket BC in summer of 84 but used Fenzy and horse collars prior to that.
Question Teaching OW with backplate and wing from the very beginning ?
- Thread starter Roger Hobden
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I did that including using the Fenzy since early 70's. When I took my "Basic Diver" course in 84, we were trained in horse collars. I bought a US Divers jacket BC in summer of 84 but used Fenzy and horse collars prior to that.
Another thing to consider. One of the top reasons that many get certified is for a single/once-in-a-lifetime vacation dive trip. The BC that is most available in the majority of resorts and dive rental shops is the jacket BC, so it makes more sense for them to have learned in it.
RobPNW
Contributor
Could is the easy part.
Last year, I was assigned to guide a couple making their first dives since being certified more than a year previously. They arrived on the boat: mid-30’s, soft and pudgy, distinctly non-athletic looking, had trouble stepping from dock to boat.
Each possessed an apparently brand new BP/W setup. The woman’s had a pink wing.
I asked how they happened to choose that gear. They said their instructor, who operates in another state, uses, teaches with, and sells that kind of gear. It’s all they knew.
When we arrived at the dive site, they had trouble standing up with their gear on and making their way aft.
I expected the worst. However, when they hit the water they became different creatures: horizontal, neutral, relaxed, calm. Easiest guide fee I ever earned.
So, yeah. If that couple did it, anyone could learn with BP/W, at least with the instructor they had.
I balk at the “should” part. I’d need to see a compelling safety reason to cross that line.
Last year, I was assigned to guide a couple making their first dives since being certified more than a year previously. They arrived on the boat: mid-30’s, soft and pudgy, distinctly non-athletic looking, had trouble stepping from dock to boat.
Each possessed an apparently brand new BP/W setup. The woman’s had a pink wing.
I asked how they happened to choose that gear. They said their instructor, who operates in another state, uses, teaches with, and sells that kind of gear. It’s all they knew.
When we arrived at the dive site, they had trouble standing up with their gear on and making their way aft.
I expected the worst. However, when they hit the water they became different creatures: horizontal, neutral, relaxed, calm. Easiest guide fee I ever earned.
So, yeah. If that couple did it, anyone could learn with BP/W, at least with the instructor they had.
I balk at the “should” part. I’d need to see a compelling safety reason to cross that line.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
There’s two ways to look at that.
With jackets how long will they be in style before that particular model is no longer made or in fashion? In two or three years do they need to be changed out in the rental fleet because it’s outdated? And then when they sell off the used jackets at the day after Thanksgiving sale how much do they get?
With BP/W, how long does the style last before a new model comes along and the fleet needs to be updated? How long does the unit last durability wise? If webbing begins to get frayed just the webbing get’s replaced not the whole unit. If a wing springs a leak most likely the inner bladder can be fixed with patch and it keeps going. If an inflator needs to be replaced, a lot of wings use a generic inflator available from Trident and you swap it out. With a jacket if the inflator needs to be changed out that means a propietary part from the manufacturer. With a jacket, if the bladder springs a leak then it’s time for either a new unit or some aquaseal smeared out on the area with the hole. After a while that starts looking shabby and open water students and customers will review the shop as having Shabby rental gear.
Depending on the BP/W brand, many are right in the same price range as moderately priced jackets, so initial price is not a good argument.
If the BP/W eventually gets changed out for whatever reason, is the price of the used BP/W higher or lower than the price of an outdated jacket bc?
With jackets how long will they be in style before that particular model is no longer made or in fashion? In two or three years do they need to be changed out in the rental fleet because it’s outdated? And then when they sell off the used jackets at the day after Thanksgiving sale how much do they get?
With BP/W, how long does the style last before a new model comes along and the fleet needs to be updated? How long does the unit last durability wise? If webbing begins to get frayed just the webbing get’s replaced not the whole unit. If a wing springs a leak most likely the inner bladder can be fixed with patch and it keeps going. If an inflator needs to be replaced, a lot of wings use a generic inflator available from Trident and you swap it out. With a jacket if the inflator needs to be changed out that means a propietary part from the manufacturer. With a jacket, if the bladder springs a leak then it’s time for either a new unit or some aquaseal smeared out on the area with the hole. After a while that starts looking shabby and open water students and customers will review the shop as having Shabby rental gear.
Depending on the BP/W brand, many are right in the same price range as moderately priced jackets, so initial price is not a good argument.
If the BP/W eventually gets changed out for whatever reason, is the price of the used BP/W higher or lower than the price of an outdated jacket bc?
Boarderguy
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We start all of our students in a BP/W at the open water level. We have found that the Halcyon Cinch system allows us to easily adjust the harness for the student.
It is actually more cost effective for us to do this as we can have less rental inventory as the sizes are infinitely for adjustable. Also as pieces/parts wear out we can replace only what is needed.
It also solves weighting issues in the cold water we get in the winter with a steel plate and weighted STA we can more correctly distribute the weight.
Then you get all the other benefits of the BP/W. We have had zero issues with this and found that after the course lots of students buy their own complete kit after using a jacket BC at their vacation destination.
I could go on and on. We don’t mandate it and if a student has their own f fear we would teach them in that but if using our equipment it’s a BP/W (Halcyon Infinity SS with Cinch System and 30LB Wing)
It is actually more cost effective for us to do this as we can have less rental inventory as the sizes are infinitely for adjustable. Also as pieces/parts wear out we can replace only what is needed.
It also solves weighting issues in the cold water we get in the winter with a steel plate and weighted STA we can more correctly distribute the weight.
Then you get all the other benefits of the BP/W. We have had zero issues with this and found that after the course lots of students buy their own complete kit after using a jacket BC at their vacation destination.
I could go on and on. We don’t mandate it and if a student has their own f fear we would teach them in that but if using our equipment it’s a BP/W (Halcyon Infinity SS with Cinch System and 30LB Wing)
The nice thing about a BP+wing is that initially you can ignore it entirely.
So you can teach swimming underwater controlling buoyancy with lungs and kicking, the good old way.
After a few dives not using the BCD, you can introduce it progressively.
This approach revealed very good when I did teach to my children.
Young children should start diving with minimal equipment, then you proceed very slowly adding one piece of gear after the other.
Of course this is the opposite of an OW course to be completed in 2 days...
So you can teach swimming underwater controlling buoyancy with lungs and kicking, the good old way.
After a few dives not using the BCD, you can introduce it progressively.
This approach revealed very good when I did teach to my children.
Young children should start diving with minimal equipment, then you proceed very slowly adding one piece of gear after the other.
Of course this is the opposite of an OW course to be completed in 2 days...
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