Tdi not dir

[captndale]

That's why it is important to find an instructor who dives the same way you dive. If it's DIR, then move on. If you feel you will get the education you want from your current instructor, then stick with him/her. Many instructors claim to be DIR, but have not taken a GUE/AG course.

I operate a charter boat and we do a lot of tech diving. I see many different divers, diving many different ways. I see divers who have had GUE training and think they are DIR who clearly don't have a clue. I see others who have never had GUE training who are much more closely aligned with the DIR philosophy, yet do not make any claim to be DIR.

As a student, one should not be trying to force one's own philosophy upon the instructor. The reason one takes a course is to gain from the instructor's knowledge and experience. Choose your instructor with care. Once the course is over, and you have moved on, you are free to make your own judgements. Accept and incorporate those things you found true and useful into your own diving. Reject those things you found lacking. No diver is perfect. No system is perfect. No one has the Holy Grail. No one instructor is perfect. We all should be on the juorney to become better divers. Get help where you can find it along the road.

 

[SteveAD]

Ok, my post will not be DIR. I feel that most ideas have some merit and no one idea is 100% right for 100% of the population. Obviously your instructor feels that his way is best (for him) or he wouldn't be diving that way. Take the class, incorporate what works for you, and acknowledge thru having tried it, what does not work for you. One of my pet peeves is the people who will veto an idea just because "it's not DIR". Try something before claiming it's wrong.

 

[SlowRain]

Worse comes to worse, use the extra spg during the course. Afterwards stick it on a 6" HP hose and now you can use it on a deco tank.

 

[crpntr133]

Not sure that I see a reason for diving two SPG's but if that is what the instructor wants then that is probably what you are going to do.
Personally I just did intro to tech and the instructor made a few suggestions towards my gear setup. My first question was "why do you suggest that?". Not challenging him but rather to see why he suggested it be changed. I ended up changing everything and it worked better. I have had others suggest to me and didn't do it simply because I didn't see the need for it. It wasn't the way they were taught but it wasn't something that I wanted to do or try.
Keep an open mind. If you don't like it then change after class.

 

[Thalassamania]

There's much to be said for diving DIR, but there's also much to be said for diving independents and there are many other flavors of perfectly acceptable approaches. Much of the noise that advocates of one system or another make is sheer nonsense. If your with an instructor who knows independents, if you want to learn the GUE approach, take a GUE course later. Every approach has advantages and drawbacks and a thinking diver will learn to tell one from the other. The only reason that I can see for rigid adherence to one system or another has more to do with a team agreement to do so that with the ultimate superiority of one system over another,

 

[potablewater]

Worse comes to worse, use the extra spg during the course. Afterwards stick it on a 6" HP hose and now you can use it on a deco tank.

Ditto...and for a moment i thought you were going to say where the OP could tell the instructor to stick it.....oops...:mooner::11:

...sorry i couldn't help myself...

all the best.

 

[nereas]

Hi, doing my first tdi courses & have bought some ds4's I routed the hoses the same as dirdiver.com but my instructor wants us to have 2 spg's. what's the views on this & when I do I cant get my regs set up as good. This guy is anti dir & thinks his way is the better way with everything If I could get a refund & do it with someone else I would. I think a tdi Instructor that doesn't know dir & how to set up a manifold because he only dived indys & now a breather is not good.

Krumpet, I read your post as well as the others in reply, and here are my own thoughts, in addition to the other replies which I feel are very good.

2 SPGs are sometimes nice because they give you the following info that having only one does not give you:

a) the 2 SPGs validate each other, and therefore if they agree you know they are both working properly;
b) if you are forced to isolate and switch to the right tank (the one that normally does not have an SPG), with 2 SPGs you would still be able to read your tank pressure;
c) if you take your regs with you on a trip, and you are forced to dive independent twin tanks, with 2 SPGs you would be properly configured.

I used to dive with 2 SPGs, although I eventually gave it up. Either way, it is not a critical issue, worth moaning and groaning about.

Now in case you think DIR is a cure-all to everything, here are the things that I find inadequate about DIR procedures:

1) that you are often diving in buddy groups of 3, which I find inferior to the normal two-person buddy team;
2) that you are taught to utilize deco-on-the-fly versus more sophisticated deco software such as V-Planner;
3) that you are required only to have one depth gauge timer (they don't like to call them computers), which of itself fails the redundancy criterion;
4) that in the name of gear reduction, you are forced to become buddy-dependent on your 3-man "team";
5) that you are given certain "standard" gasses to use, rather than taught to think for yourself in choosing various bottom mix and deco mix combinations.

Now, in fairness, here are some things that I did not like about TDI training, as well, so as not to give an unbalanced opinion:

i) some TDI instructors still use the long hose curled up and attached to their right twin tank as an octo for their buddy, rather than donating their primary;
ii) some TDI instructors still wrap colored plastic around their various deco hoses, as a color code to warn them about the wrong mix at various depths;
iii) some TDI instructors use "technical BCs" rather than simple backplate-wing-webbing.

You should give the IANTD and TDI courses their due credit, in that they teach you how to think, rather than force you to memorize someone else's way of planning your deco dives and diving your deco plans.

Besides, after you finish your TDI training, you can always switch your gear configuration and procedures over to GUE-DIR if you like. And you will be a better DIR diver then, because you now understand more about the choices available, and why they are made.

As long as your instructor is not forcing you to buy an expensive piece of antiquated equipment, like a new B/C, then I think you are ok. Get the extra SPG, attach it, learn how to use it, then if you don't like it, use it later for another deco bottle.

The bottom line is that you need to do what your instructor says, in order to get your trimix card. And you need to take your tech instructor seriously, in order to pay attention to learning how to dive decompression procedures and trimix. Tech instructors normally do not have much tolerance for noncooperative students. So do yourself a big favour and knock off the moaning and groaning.

Otherwise, go and find yourself a GUE-DIR (or an AG-DIR) tech instructor.

I find it amusing that you are not yet tech trained, and yet you already seem to be brainwashed by the GUE-DIR methodology. That might be one of the hazards of spending too much time on the internet, and not enough time in the water, unfortunately.

["Brainwashing" arose as a term in English during the 1950-1953 Korean War, wherein if something was repeated to you enough times, you believed it, no matter what. Translation of Chinese (Mandarin) xǐ n

o : xǐ, to wash + n

o, brain.]

 

[Web Monkey]

Not sure that I see a reason for diving two SPG's but if that is what the instructor wants then that is probably what you are going to do.

Mine wanted it so that if the isolation valve was closed due to a failure, you could still see what was left in the remaining tank.

It seems like a reasonable thought process.

It's also useful for diagnosing a "brain fart" where you somehow ended up in the water with the isolator closed and sucked one tank dry. It makes answering the question "Why am I tilting and why is it so hard to breathe?" much easier.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

Mine wanted it so that if the isolation valve was closed due to a failure, you could still see what was left in the remaining tank.

It seems like a reasonable thought process.

It's also useful for diagnosing a "brain fart" where you somehow ended up in the water with the isolator closed and sucked one tank dry. It makes answering the question "Why am I tilting and why is it so hard to breathe?" much easier.

Terry

The DIR answer, as I understand it, is that a second SPG introduces additional failure points with no gain since once you close your isolator you've thumbed the dive and you're going to get out of the water with the gas your and your buddy are carrying, which will be adequate.

 

[Rainer]

Since you clearly learned to dive on the internet, let me correct your many, many inaccuracies concerning DIR. Seriously, where do you get this crap?

Now in case you think DIR is a cure-all to everything, here are the things that I find inadequate about DIR procedures:

1) that you are often diving in buddy groups of 3, which I find inferior to the normal two-person buddy team;

Why? If the SHTF, having that extra buddy is going to seem really superior, really fast.

2) that you are taught to utilize deco-on-the-fly versus more sophisticated deco software such as V-Planner;

No, we were taught VPM and Buhlmann with GFs. We were also taught how we could approximate these algorithms with ratio deco. We were told to always check the software first.

3) that you are required only to have one depth gauge timer (they don't like to call them computers), which of itself fails the redundancy criterion;

Um, in my recent Tech 1 class, taught by the GUE training director, we ALL had two BTs (including the instructor). Thanks for playing, though.

4) that in the name of gear reduction, you are forced to become buddy-dependent on your 3-man "team";

I've no idea what this could mean.

5) that you are given certain "standard" gasses to use, rather than taught to think for yourself in choosing various bottom mix and deco mix combinations.

Most of us standardized on a few gases before we ever heard to GUE or DIR. The benefits greatly out-weigh the negatives, at least for us.