TDI Intro to Tech or AN/DP?

[Marie13]

@Sh0rtBus

We’re apparently heretics with hard, stubborn hearts for refusing to worship the God of Fundies in the Shrine of GUE. For our perceived sins, we will be cast into the outer darkness, accompanied by wailing and gnashing of teeth from the GUE priests because we are two lost souls.

Per the Book of Jablonski, we will be condemned to mediocre instruction from the heretics of TDI. We would have been better off if we had never thought of tech diving and will be forced to dive for eternity in jacket BCs, no long hose, and split fins (Book of Jablonski, chapter 8, verse 12).

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . What I don't buy is making assumptions about the length or content of any given instructor's AN/DP class. Thus this long thread wherein I have stated repeatedly that I don't agree with telling someone they SHOULD take ItT (or TDI Sidemount) before taking AN/DP - or telling them that they should not, for that matter. The merit of doing that TOTALLY depends on the specific AN/DP instructor and what that instructor includes in their AN/DP class.

Just about every instructor/shop's web site I have come across seems to say the combined AN/DP course normally runs 5-6 days. Is it an "assumption" that if an instructor makes exceptions for students who need a lot more time than that to develop the prerequisite skills to what is normally taught in the 5-6 days that the instructor is in effect giving students another course (perhaps for free)? The instructor may call it all one course and allow a student weeks or months to complete it, but it's in effect another course if he or his shop advertises that the combined AN/DP course normally runs 5-6 days.

 

[tursiops]

Just about every instructor/shop's web site I have come across seems to say the combined AN/DP course normally runs 5-6 days. Is it an "assumption" that if an instructor makes exceptions for students who need a lot more time than that to develop the prerequisite skills to what is normally taught in the 5-6 days that the instructor is in effect giving students another course (perhaps for free)? The instructor may call it all one course and allow a student weeks or months to complete it, but it's in effect another course if he or his shop advertises that the combined AN/DP course normally runs 5-6 days.

I don't follow the logic. For example, a PADI OW class might take 12 months (or more) to complete, if the prep work is followed by a referral to the Caribbean for the cert dives. Do you thus call the cert dives a different course, even though the PADI OW is advertised as only being a few days long?

 

[elgoog]

@Sh0rtBus

We’re apparently heretics with hard, stubborn hearts for refusing to worship the God of Fundies in the Shrine of GUE. For our perceived sins, we will be cast into the outer darkness, accompanied by wailing and gnashing of teeth from the GUE priests because we are two lost souls.

Per the Book of Jablonski, we will be condemned to mediocre instruction from the heretics of TDI. We would have been better off if we had never thought of tech diving and will be forced to dive for eternity in jacket BCs, no long hose, and split fins (Book of Jablonski, chapter 8, verse 12).

Wow. Also LOL. Mainly Wow. You must REALLY hate GUE if you got the above from anything anyone said in this thread. If, in fact, there were GUE priests, I doubt they would spend any time wailing and gnashing about people who are already predisposed in such a manner.
The good thing, in my mind, is that attacks on GUE have now started mentioning Jablonski instead of quoting Irvine - if nothing else, that's progress because the association is correct at long last.

Also, I feel the need to quote your post so it's preserved for the life of SB. Just in case, you know, you delete it later when you find the conversation turns in a direction that you don't like. Not like you've done anything like that before. Oh, wait ...

@Kyle0692 In case you're still reading this thread. You've gotten a lot of differing opinions on this thread as well as real world experiences of people going through the trainings in question. They are obviously not in agreement but at least tell you how different divers of varying skill, different diving+learning styles, different instructor availability/familiarity and dreams of GUE priesthood (or not) have approached them and what they got out of it. I hope from that you're able to decide which of the various approaches or agencies works for you. Safe and fun diving!

 

[Marie13]

Wow. Also LOL. Mainly Wow. You must REALLY hate GUE if you got the above from anything anyone said in this thread. If, in fact, there were GUE priests, I doubt they would spend any time wailing and gnashing about people who are already predisposed in such a manner.
The good thing, in my mind, is that attacks on GUE have now started mentioning Jablonski instead of quoting Irvine - if nothing else, that's progress because the association is correct at long last.

I’m past the point of caring what other people think. I do what’s right for me, not what some keyboard diver thinks is right for me. If you’ve read my Journey to Tech thread, that’s where all this comes from. Tired of people pushing GUE my way. Basically, it’s my extremely sarcastic way of saying, “What part of no don’t you understand?”

 

[Kyle0692]

Wow. Also LOL. Mainly Wow. You must REALLY hate GUE if you got the above from anything anyone said in this thread. If, in fact, there were GUE priests, I doubt they would spend any time wailing and gnashing about people who are already predisposed in such a manner.
The good thing, in my mind, is that attacks on GUE have now started mentioning Jablonski instead of quoting Irvine - if nothing else, that's progress because the association is correct at long last.

Also, I feel the need to quote your post so it's preserved for the life of SB. Just in case, you know, you delete it later when you find the conversation turns in a direction that you don't like. Not like you've done anything like that before. Oh, wait ...

@Kyle0692 In case you're still reading this thread. You've gotten a lot of differing opinions on this thread as well as real world experiences of people going through the trainings in question. They are obviously not in agreement but at least tell you how different divers of varying skill, different diving+learning styles, different instructor availability/familiarity and dreams of GUE priesthood (or not) have approached them and what they got out of it. I hope from that you're able to decide which of the various approaches or agencies works for you. Safe and fun diving!

Yes - still following all the differences here! I am going to start with ITT and go from there. Hopefully just a couple or three more weeks to heal from my surgery and I’ll be cleared to get back in the water

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I’m past the point of caring what other people think. I do what’s right for me, not what some keyboard diver thinks is right for me. If you’ve read my Journey to Tech thread, that’s where all this comes from. Tired of people pushing GUE my way. Basically, it’s my extremely sarcastic way of saying, “What part of no don’t you understand?”

The reason why GUE gets pushed so often (I also push UTD as I see they are fairly equivalent in their gatekeeper course) is that they have a consistent set of high standards for their instructors and the certification requirements for their courses. UTD and GUE are much smaller organizations than TDI, and the overhead of quality control is less. I've only taken GUE fundies which was the best skills course I've taken by a long shot. I haven't continued that path due to my preference for diving in a sidemount configuration. While focusing on GUE fundies set my sidemount skills growth back, I don't regret it, as in the long term, I am a better diver having taken fundies. Much better. The lessons I learned, the cold shower I took, I'll never forget.

Today I had lunch with a former OW/AOW student who I first certified 2 years ago who just earned a T1 pass. He described T1 as an even better course than fundies.

There are a lot of great instructors with TDI who teach at an equally high level as any GUE or UTD instructor (and not all went through either agency). But there are also some mediocre ones. Being an instructor for SDI, I greatly appreciate how SDI/TDI allow, encourage even, instructors to add skills/augment courses to provide greater value. But it would be unfair to not admit that the syllabus of UTD and GUE are at a higher level.

Again, lots of great TDI instructors who are just as good, but if you go down that route, you need to do your homework on whether the instructor is worth their salt. With UTD and GUE, you primarily need to check that you do not have a personality clash.

 

[lowviz]

...//... The good thing, in my mind, is that attacks on GUE have now started mentioning Jablonski instead of quoting Irvine - if nothing else, that's progress because the association is correct at long last. ...//..

First, and foremost, I'm 'DIR/GUE friendly'. Always have been since TSandM, but that is another story for another day.

Nice quote. But all you guys/gals secretly love GI3, he is the one who gave your style of synchronized diving its unique 'spice'. JJ is far more palatable to the unwashed masses.

I dive alone but I rely on you to set the 'really safe' limit in the back of my mind. No buddy, no problem. One failure, now I'm on point to watch for the second.

With UTD and GUE, you primarily need to check that you do not have a personality clash.

OMG! How timely. I checked out my local (Dutch Springs) instructor years ago and totally decided his style was not for me. So I just faked it for years. It is all slowly coming together for me...

 

[Lorenzoid]

I don't follow the logic. For example, a PADI OW class might take 12 months (or more) to complete, if the prep work is followed by a referral to the Caribbean for the cert dives. Do you thus call the cert dives a different course, even though the PADI OW is advertised as only being a few days long?

We have been talking about actual days with an instructor. That someone spent 8 months completing AN/DP isn’t as relevant as that in those months the instructor spent 3-4 times the number of “advertised dives” with the student.

 

[tursiops]

We have been talking about actual days with an instructor. That someone spent 8 months completing AN/DP isn’t as relevant as that in those months the instructor spent 3-4 times the number of “advertised dives” with the student.

Ok, that makes more sense.