TDI Intro to Tech or AN/DP?

[CptTightPants21]

Well, I suppose I could have spent more money and taken ItT first, then practiced on my own for a while, then taken AN/DP. But, I think it would have taken longer (not to mention costing more). I could be wrong, but I think diving with my tech instructor on a regular basis all the way through did help me learn it right the first time and achieve the required competence in a shorter time.

You really don't get it. Have you ever stopped to consider that the first 28 dives and 8 months was your ITT? Are you so delusional or vain as to keep beating your chest that "I never took ITT!"

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Great thread with great points from all sides. I took my combined ITANDP with the same instructor as Stuart and my course was 5 pool sessions and 8 quarry sessions before we did our check out dives. The course was spread over many months with a lot of classroom work in between as well. Now, him and I had the advantage of having the instructor locally but I can see Ken's point that if I was traveling to do my course as a visiting student than he may demand that I have my crap sorted out for one level before I am permitted to the next one.

I am presently doing UTD Tech 1 and I like the way their course is structured. You learn technical diving at Essentials of Tech level. When you sign up for Tech 1 then you already have the skills nailed down and the Tech 1 course then focuses on failures and refining team work etc. This particular course breakdown may address the OPs need more accurately than TDI Intro to tech. If I was in the OPs situation and wanted to see if technical diving was for me or not then I would look for a UTD Essentials or GUE Fundies course. Once that was finished, I would have the option of progressing within UTD/GUE or switching to a TDI Technical course with the skills acquired from UTD/GUE or just ditch it and continue to dive recreationally with refined skills.

Just a thought.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Well, I suppose I could have spent more money and taken ItT first, then practiced on my own for a while, then taken AN/DP. But, I think it would have taken longer (not to mention costing more). I could be wrong, but I think diving with my tech instructor on a regular basis all the way through did help me learn it right the first time and achieve the required competence in a shorter time.

I apologize if I missed it upthread, but did you score a free lunch there that is not available to most? Diving with your tech instructor for months on a regular basis and not being charged substantially more than what a typical 4-day (6 dives) AN/DP course costs? How many hours of diving did you get to do with the instructor in total?

Some instructors charge something like $200/day for private coaching of the type we're talking about.

Edit: I see CplTightPants mentioned "28 dives and 8 months," so I assume you said that upthread.

 

[stuartv]

You really don't get it. Have you ever stopped to consider that the first 28 dives and 8 months was your ITT? Are you so delusional or vain as to keep beating your chest that "I never took ITT!"

I think you don't get it. You can put whatever label you want on it. You can say that issuing an ItT card makes all the difference.

The point is that if a tech instructor (whom you have, presumably, determined you would like to train with - and that determination is a completely different discussion) offers to take a student that only meets the minimum prerequisites for AN/DP and commits to providing all the training required, with additional time beyond what the AN/DP standards require as minimums, what reason is there to NOT take said instructor up on their offer? What reason is there to PAY to take a separate ItT course, when your AN/DP instructor is basically offering to give it to you for no extra charge?

If your beef is not about whether an ItT card is issued, then what is it? The OP said the instructor would, essentially, teach him the ItT material as part of the AN/DP course...

To ME, getting an ItT card is completely irrelevant to anything. It's not a prerequisite to anything (except certain instructors' classes). Learning the actual knowledge and getting the skills is what is important. Who cares if you get a card for it? Thus, to ME, if the instructor is willing to teach that knowledge and skills as part of teaching AN/DP, what is wrong with that? If you have already determined the instructor is someone you'd like to take AN/DP from, and they are offering to teach the ItT material as part of that, why NOT take them up on that offer?

For all the complaining I see on SB about how the industry has ruined itself by breaking training up into so many bite-sized pieces, all this wailing and gnashing of teeth about an instructor who is offering to teach a whole pile of stuff in one longer class is really a bit surprising.

 

[stuartv]

I apologize if I missed it upthread, but did you score a free lunch there that is not available to most? Diving with your tech instructor for months on a regular basis and not being charged substantially more than what a typical 4-day (6 dives) AN/DP course costs? How many hours of diving did you get to do with the instructor in total?

Some instructors charge something like $200/day for private coaching of the type we're talking about.

No. As @CAPTAIN SINBAD noted, he took the same class (at a different time) from the same instructor and his class was also much longer than the 4 or 5 day classes most instructors do for AN/DP. My class took longer than his, but that was mostly because mine was interrupted by winter, where we basically just paused and had occasional practice sessions in the pool while we waited for Spring and the right opportunity to get down to NC for checkout dives. The 43 dives (I checked my log) I logged in between starting AN/DP and finishing were 20 dives in quarries or the ocean, with my instructor. The rest were fun dives (some, with practice diving doubles) on my own that I fit in, in the meantime. Then there were the numerous pool sessions as well...

At the time, the course fee was right at $1000. As with the OP, the instructor knew fully well my level of experience and skill before I started the course. He actually taught me my Deep and Wreck classes prior to starting AN/DP.

As I said upthread, different instructors are teaching for different reasons. I would say that the instructor I had was not doing it for the money, so it didn't really matter to him that the class took so long, or that his classes generally take longer than others. I think he was genuinely motivated by high personal standards and wanting to make good technical divers (whether I turned out to be one being a completely separate subject).

 

[elgoog]

I would say that the instructor I had was not doing it for the money, so it didn't really matter to him that the class took so long, or that his classes generally take longer than others. I think he was genuinely motivated by high personal standards and wanting to make good technical divers (whether I turned out to be one being a completely separate subject).

And this brings us back to your experience not being the norm. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say most technical instructors are not this generous, regardless of whether they do it full time or not.

I'm honestly envious of your experience as it's clearly laid a very strong base for your future diving.

 

[Lorenzoid]

And this brings us back to your experience not being the norm. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say most technical instructors are not this generous, regardless of whether they do it full time or not.

I would say the takeaway from this for anyone whose instructor said, as the OP's reportedly did, that "they were OK with me not being used to the gear and would spend some extra time with me to get used to it," would be to make sure you get the instructor to clarify what that means. How much "extra time"? Exactly what does he mean by "get used to it"?--there is more to developing the skills and mindset that are prerequisites to the actual mechanics of tech diving than just feeling comfortable with the gear itself. Some people take eight months and 20 dives with an instructor. Some of us may need even more than that. If the instructor says, "Nah, nobody takes THAT long," then maybe consider checking out other instructors. Just know what the instructor has in mind so as to avoid misunderstandings.

 

[Marie13]

I’m doing ITT for the knowledge, specifically that from actual class dives.

I’ve got my diving schedule for the season pretty much worked out. I’ve had 3 pool sessions with my doubles this winter, about 9 hours. I estimate I will have at least 50 dives (depending on if charters get blown out) with my doubles before ITT, mostly on the Great Lakes. They will also be going with me on my trip to the Straits (not sure about Toby). I was taking last night at the shop with the AN/DP instructor. He said I will be in a very good place before ITT and AN/DP with all those doubles dives under my belt.

 

[stuartv]

And this brings us back to your experience not being the norm. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say most technical instructors are not this generous, regardless of whether they do it full time or not.

I'm honestly envious of your experience as it's clearly laid a very strong base for your future diving.

I totally get that. Clearly not the norm. But, if the OP is being offered something similar.... he may be similarly fortunate.

 

[leadduck]

Could it be that it's just cheaper if the instructor teaches ITT+AN/DP but issues only the AN/DP card, so you save the ITT certification fee as you won't need that card anyway. So formally you sign up only for AN/DP class; the duration, number of dives and course price depends on the diver's skill level.