TDI GUE course differences

[rogerhelmich]

A new commer reading agency wars would think that Scuba was a unsafe sport

 

[MikeFerrara]

sheck33,

I won't shoot you. I'm glad you got a good class from GUE. I absolutly believe they do what they do well. If you are happy with what you got I think your right in saying so. If your not happy with what you got from other agencies and instructors your right for sharing that with others also. That isn't what I have a problem with.

I will tell you something else. We teach a real mean OW class and you know what? We can't sell it. NINE out of TEN go where it's cheaper and faster by choice after we tell them what they get with us and why we do it. Hell, I even have a money back garantee. A few of these divers keep diving and later realize they can't dive. Then they run around blaming PADI and go take a DIRF. Could PADI raise the bar and force it on them. Look around some one will always do it cheap. the customer is always right as they say. I think it's funny as hell!

In order to stay out of jail I'm going to have to shorten and cheapen the class and give the masses what they want. I guess then I'll be able to fill a DIRF.

 

[AquaTec]

Shek33
Nice responce....lets keep PADI out of this unless you are speaking of the Tec Deep etc.


This is about tech diving only. GUE teaches tech diving skills so of course there is a big difference between any rec organisation's teaching and any tech organisation.

I don't think Mike nor I where seriously bashing GUE, it was more of a response to the two people who responded to the seriouse question with "my dad is bigger than your dad"

I would love to hear what you think about the differences are between the two agencies. keeping the skill level the same. ie deco procedure/trimix from both agencies.

the one real big difference i know of is the way GUE perfrms their deco, it may not be better..it is just different.

by stating

Look at the dives the GUE teams do!! If they are so full of it why arent they dying like flies??? They must be doing something right?

is silly, because we could say the same about TDI or IANTD divers
what you are realy saying is that they are good at publicity, and they have one good organized project underway which is well funded and researched. I am not making small of the things they are accomplatiing, I am just saying that there are a lot of guys out there doing great dives that are just as demanding and chalanging and they too are surviving. this isn't about what a small group is doing within any organisation. GUE wins that one, and what a great marketing tool for their training and equipment program, they can never finish the "research" as it would be like turning off the advertisments to their other profitable sidelines

this is about the differences between the two training organisations for the entry level deco diver

 

[AquaTec]

rogerhelmich once bubbled...
A new commer reading agency wars would think that Scuba was a unsafe sport

it is an unsafe sport. if you want safe don't leave your computer and just talk about diving

 

[Waterlover]

Tell us about Scapa Flow...

 

[tomcat]

I had been very impressed with people at Scubaboard until now. Whenever a question is asked, answers are usually informative and to the point.

Why are people jumping so quickly to the better/worse part without even answering the first part about significant differences? If you don't state or can't state the differences, how can you then explain to someone which is better and which is worse?

Besides, the question was about advantages and disadvantages. Not which course is better. That judgement comes only after examining the relative advantages and disadvantages.

In my opinion, I shouldn't have asked this question here, having suspected that people can't see past the GUE vs Rest of the World debate. How do you expexct a new prospective technical diver like me to make informed choices when people just focus on the who got the better agency debate without being able to elaborate intelligently on why it is so.

I have heard about people from some agencies being lemmings (act/speak without thinking/understanding) and I thought it was because of how the questions were phrased (of the which is better variety). Thought I could avoid that by breaking the question down into parts before coming to the which is better part. Guess I was wrong. The force is strong! The darkside beckons

 

[AquaTec]

I will post a repot under tech trips

 

[db8us]

AquaTec once bubbled...

sounds like you had a either a bad instructor or just a bad experience.....or they did not make you feel like part of the team that GUE does for you.

it is OK to use the gear stated above if that is what you want to use. TDI doesn't teach that you MUSY use a certain type of gear and configuration, the idavidual instructor will show you several types of gear configurations and then you decide what works best for you, your diving sty;e, and your diving enviroment.

I was just in Scapa Flow Scotland, and guess what they do not have manifolded doubles there. so if you are going to dive there you better know how to use independent doubles...and those who brough their own manifolds etc could not rig them because of size difference etc.

that is not to say that TDI teaches independent double, heck i have never met an instructor teaching anything but manifolded doubles and aluminium stages. but who know who is out there.
I knew the precasions associated with independents because i used them prior to manifolds being invented.

I will never realy on anything but my bladder for lift, therefor i will always use a double bladder. have you ever used your drysuit to slow you down on a rapid descent after your bladder has failed.

now a question for you....are you suggesting that you do not use a reel for shooting a bag, or that you do not shoot a bag at all.

Maybe i was unfair, because my TDI course was already in 1996.
The said i MUST use double-bladder wings, so i had no choice.
And yes, i am able to escape with a punctured wing (i tried that).

And Yes, i have been to Scapa-Flow last time 1997. We dove of the Jean-Elaine and Sunrise and we brought our own doubles.
DIR is also about proper preparation. By the way, i liked south-England more !We started there from Portland and Looe.

My TDI training was in Egypt, they only had 12l steel-stages and were wearing them across the chest !

I suggest you use a spool for shooting a bag. Reels i use inside a wreck or cave.

Maybe people should have a look at the standards for the Instructor-rating of the various agencies.

About been arrogant (Mike´s post):
I just gave my personal experience, nothing more, nothing less.

About the IANTD stuff:
I also did IANTD-courses from Nitrox up to Trimix. I must admit, that the IANTD classes were far better than the TDI, but the Instructor was Billy Deans in Key West and he is no more active.
The Nitrox instructor in Germany knew less about the theory than myself as a student. (no kidding)

I can not comment on DIR-F since i did my GUE training when this course did not exist.

Also i can not comment on teaching any courses, since i am not (no more) an instructor , because i rather go diving the fun stuff.

I did not want to be arrogant, just give some personal thoughts because i had done both courses.

It would be interesting to know about the "GUE-bashers" which GUE courses they have done so far, so they can compare both courses ?


Michael

 

[AquaTec]

db8us
tell us what you see as the major differences, good and bad between the two or three agencies.
why specificly is GUE better

 

[db8us]

AquaTec once bubbled...
db8us
tell us what you see as the major differences, good and bad between the two or three agencies.
why specificly is GUE better

First, GUE is not giving away Instructor-cards. I know at least one TDI-Instructor personally who has got his card without beeing a recreational instructor and without any formal "training", just because he was "famous".

Second, there are no shortcuts. I was a swimmer when i was young and i asked my GUE-instructor if i can skip the swimming, cause it was damned cold and raining and there was only a cold pool.
She said: if you were a swimmer in the past, go and hurry, you should be out of the water fast !

In both TDI and some IANTD classes it was ok to knee on the ground and do drills like stage-clipping. In both GUE courses it was mandatory to do it all perfect neutral and horizontal.

Also in the equipment part TDI just accepted everything, at Billy Deans we were at least talking about it, GUE went over every single piece.

Also TDI did not care about any buddy-awareness, IANTD Germany neither, but Billy Deans has and GUE strongly focused on that.

Also the spent "in-water" time was MUCH more in the GUE courses.

Billy Deans was equally good as Tamara when it came to general things. Once he kicked a guy out for always beeing late on the dock, because he said that this was the wrong attitude.

One specific deatil from the IANTD course.
We had to do an exam and when calculating the dive you came out with a CNS% of 103 when decoing on O2.
The "right" solution was to use EAN80 instead, since this was the prefferd gas for IANTD anyway.
I told Billy i think that is stupid since the 100% can not be kept anyway on long dives and that the CNS% was a pure statistical thing.
He said it was for the theory and the next day we decoed on pure O2, surface-supplied from the boat.

Today i can not keep the CNS under 100% on most of my dives anyway...


Michael