TDI GUE course differences

[Doc Intrepid]

when did you go off your meds?

I'm not sure what your problem is, but I'm reasonably sure its in the DSM-IV and that there are pills for it.

Why don't you tone down on the 'stroke' business and relax a bit. If you have anything constructive to contribute, I'll bet it might be better received.

 

[MikeFerrara]

diveski01 once bubbled...



I lose my temper at times with certain individuals on this board,

Yes and you don't answer their rebuttals.

 

[Braunbehrens]

tomcat once bubbled...
Part I

i know you are trying to help me. but telling me what the answer is, without providing me with the justification implies one of the following:

Look, if you don't like his answer, ask someone else.

Here is what happened during my advanced nitrox TDI class. This was with a great (by any standard) TDI instructor, the best local non-DIR diver, and an all around great guy whom I really don't want to badmouth.

We did one lecture during which we discussed some stuff. I learned very little. I had read the book and was already familiar with 90% of the material.

In the book it said that being narced and not knowing it is a good thing. If you don't believe me, read the book.

The instructor did debunk this when I brought it up (in all fairness).

Now, I had dived with this instructor a couple of times, and he had seen me dive many many times. He was well aware of my skills.

We did one boat dive. The instructor sent me off with another student and a graduate of one of his adv. nitrox classes, let's call the student Joe and the other guy Kent. I had dived with Kent many times, and our skills were about on par.

During the dive Joe misunderstood the instructions and completely screwd up the dive. If I remember right, he took off reeling and never came back. I had to call Kent's attention to this fact, and we chased him down.

We shot a bag, which I had already done, and I did a gas switch, which I also already knew how to do.

I paid (I think) $400 for this class. The ONLY thing it was good for is getting a card that would get me fills. That's it.

About a year later I took a GUE FUNDAMENTALS class. I learned a mindblowing amount of stuff. I figured out what I was able to do, and what I wasn't able to do. I figured out which skills I still needed to work on. I learned how to deal with a situation that is outside your planned dive. Getting to my valves, getting the backup mask, donating the primary, going to the backup reg etc etc., all these things became second nature.

Yes, I did practice quite a bit for this class. To me, that is part of the preparation, which I had also done for the TDI class. So some of the stuff I learned is due to practicing, and due to a local GUE instructor who was kind enough to do practice dives with me (he wasn't instructor yet back then). I also practiced with other guys who had signed up for the class.

I know that you can always say "well, I"m sure there are good TDI instructors and crappy GUE instructors". Maybe that is possible. Maybe it's even likely. However, your chances of getting excellent instruction are much much higher with GUE.

Just look around you. Out of all the people who've taken GUE and TDI classes, I'm willing to bet that over 90% will say that GUE is far better.

 

[tomcat]

Look, if you don't like his answer, ask someone else.

i'm sure Manos had a reason for feeling so strongly about TDI and i wanted to hear it. Looks like he wasn't joking or being sarcastic when he claims TDI sells c-cards. Since he is not forthcoming in other details, will leave it as that.

Just look around you. Out of all the people who've taken GUE and TDI classes, I'm willing to bet that over 90% will say that GUE is far better.

true, that is indeed what i have been getting. was wondering why because all they could tell me was that "GUE is so much better, just go take the course and you'll know why". i can't "just take the course" cos it does cost a lot of money and time. that's why i wanted to find out what the differences were.

so what i have gathered so far is that there is a difference in:

a. depth of instruction
b. level of knowledge gained
c. scope of knowledge covered
d. # useful skills gained
e. overall proficiency and confidence developed

thanks for all the inputs guys.

 

[diveski01]

Manos once bubbled...
[BIn this list you have to filter the people that can post usefull right information and then close your ears when the strokes sing.

Safe diving. Manos [/B]

Yes, each person must decide for themselves what information to take in and what to ignore.

However, it is apparent that Manos completely missed, or completely ignored, my plea to be more diplomatic here than some folks are over on Quest.

Manos, you are killing efforts to clean up the negative image of DIR divers. The term "stroke" is highly offensive to the general diving public because they do not have the background knowledge to comprehend it's true meaning.

Please refrain from using quest-like terminology on this board. Say what you wish on quest. That is a subscription forum for GUE members and speaking freely is not an issue there as the members are knowledgeable about what the terms mean. I, personally, have absolutely no issues with any of the language used over there but it should be kept over there. I actually think a lot of it is very entertaining.

However, this is a forum for the general diving community and I am embarrassed by hard-core DIR fanatics that insist on demeaning others, just for sport. There's no need to be rude to others to show that you are a good diver with excellent Tech &/or Cave skills.

To dive DIR and to take GUE training are personal decisions each diver has to make. A lot of us are trying to encourage just that. Being rude and offensive is counter-productive to more divers looking into the benefits of this system.

DIR is no longer just for the high-end Tech and Cave communities. It is coming to and being accepted by recreational divers who believe in it just as strongly as Tech and Cavers.

 

[Braunbehrens]

Becki, I have no problem with people being rude to each other on Quest. However, there are some people on Quest who are apparently only there to "check things out". As a result, when someone says something disparaging about recreational divers on Quest, it ends up being quoted again over here.

I would prefer it if people approached this whole thing in the spirit of wanting to help others, and didn't make any rude comments about anyone, anywhere.

It is one thing if Trey feels that DIR is being attacked and defends himself. It is another when a relative DIR novice tries to imitate this by making fun of or yelling at recreational divers.

Just my .02

 

[diveski01]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
Becki, I have no problem with people being rude to each other on Quest. However, there are some people on Quest who are apparently only there to "check things out". As a result, when someone says something disparaging about recreational divers on Quest, it ends up being quoted again over here.

I would prefer it if people approached this whole thing in the spirit of wanting to help others, and didn't make any rude comments about anyone, anywhere.

It is one thing if Trey feels that DIR is being attacked and defends himself. It is another when a relative DIR novice tries to imitate this by making fun of or yelling at recreational divers.

Just my .02

I'm totally with you and thanks for your post over on quest conveying the differences in delivery style and terminology when posting here. No surprise regarding the first response to it.

A relative DIR novice has no grounds to put down those he/she has just been one of. Nobody is immediately an expert at every skill as soon as the course lets out. We all need to practice skills as a routine part of our diving and evolve accordingly.

GI is trying to save lives and intentionally uses a strong delivery style with those who seem to need it that way. If people are saying improper things on quest then they should expect to get it from him with both barrells over there. quest posts do not belong over here for sure! I'm a quest lurker for my own edification.

Ideally, an experienced and knowledgeable DIR diver should be willing to share with others in a helpful and encouraging manner. That's how I got into it - through observing the skills practiced by a couple of dive buddies - with excellent skills btw, very squared away. That progressed to listening to their discussions, learning the basics, then taking a class, then practice, practice, practice.

We've had a lot of success with introducing DIR diving to fellow members of a LDS dive club who just want to get better and they can see where the bar is by diving with these guys. These guys are fully aware of how much better they are u/w than most everyone in our area, but they are NEVER demeaning to recreational divers. Excellent mentors and ambassadors for DIR. Hopefully more of that positive attitude will become evident on this board.

 

[O-ring]

Becki, I have no problem with people being rude to each other on Quest. However, there are some people on Quest who are apparently only there to "check things out". As a result, when someone says something disparaging about recreational divers on Quest, it ends up being quoted again over here.

There are DIR divers on this board. Just because someone hangs out here, does not mean they are a stroke. As we found out yesterday and today, some quest members that recently came over here are far more stroked out than most of the denizens of this board. A lot of the DIR divers here read quest (they don't just "check things out") and post on this community as well. They manage to do all this without coming off like total jerks too. Much to your surprise, this is not entirely a community of "recreational divers" either...just because someone doesn't read quest, or if someone reads quest and also hangs out here, they are not automatically a recreational diver or somehow less a person than you or I.

The recent quest additions to our friendly community started the crossposting and they got bit hard by it. Too bad... they shouldn't have started a fight they couldn't finish. They ended up looking like a bunch of idiots and reflected badly on DIR. Oh well, let's get over it and move on. Lesson learned...let's hope. The infighting and the attempt to throw MHK under the bus was really pathetic. I lost what remaining respect I had for any of you after that little move... I took a class with MHK and can vouch for his skill in the water, instructional ability, and overall good attitude. I can't say the same for any of our johnny-come-lately messiahs.

A relative DIR novice has no grounds to put down those he/she has just been one of

This is where we disagree. I don't particularly care if someone is a DIR novice, or an expert...there is no excuse for treating people like pieces of trash. I can only imagine what would happen if you people behaved in this manner when you aren't hiding behind the Internet and a keyboard. Surely someone would stick a scout where the sun don't shine, and I would be first in line and handing out numbers.

Another thing I thought was funny was how I am sooo dangerous and your purpose is to cleanse the board of people like me who get people killed. You have no idea who the hell I am or what training I have or even if I am DIR. What if I am 100% DIR? What if I am actively working towards DIR? What if I have friends who are GUE instructors or WKPP divers? Who knows and who cares. The problem is, even if I was DIR, I would still be calling you all "you people" and trying to distance myself as much as possible because I don't want to be associated with anyone that looks down their nose at others in that manner and feels it is alright to tee off on whomever they want based on how they dive.

Anyway, I hope all the bad blood goes away and we can move on.

 

[scubatexastony]

Well put and to the point. I almost took a DIRF this spring but due to the attitude of the host, I had no desire to find out what I might be missing. Be glad to dive with you any day!

tony

 

[O-ring]

scubatexastony once bubbled...
Well put and to the point. I almost took a DIRF this spring but due to the attitude of the host, I had no desire to find out what I might be missing. Be glad to dive with you any day!

tony

DIR-F was the best class I have ever taken...period. I would find another host and try to take it, it truly is a great class. Although I have no experience in the new format, I bet it is still the eye-opener it was when I took it. I know that JJ, Dave Sweetin, and MHK are great instructors if you ever have the opportunity to take it from any of them.

Another good point Tony brings up...now he will dive with me. Hmm.... What can I do with that? Plenty. We have been doing it up this way for the past year or so and it was being done for quite a while prior to that by others near me. Now we could head to the quarry and do a dive. Beforehand, we might talk about gear and procedures. I might see something on Tony's gear that I thought was a little odd and say something like:

Me: "Hey Tony, that's a nice reg, how long have you had it?"

Tony: "A couple years.."

Me: "Very cool. Hey, have you ever thought about rigging the hoses this way?"

Tony: "No, not really. Why should I do it that way?"

Me: "Well, it facilitates reaching your valves because you might want to <fill in the blanks and the rest>.

Now I have a friend, a dive buddy, and am passing along the message and hopefully it was received. If not, oh well, I still have made a friend..