Speaking for myself since I run a Hydro testing facility, if I was presented this cylinder for testing, I would condemn it. Now, before accepting the cylinder, I would let the owner know this and he can decide whether or not to leave it with me (and have it condemned) or take it himself. But if I recieve a cylinder and stamp it/return it to service/ or even test without stamping, I leave myself open to hefty fines from the DOT. (technically, I would stamp it and mark it. I would stmap "condemned" on the crown and X out the markings)Think of me what you want, but im not going to risk my buisness and hard earned money because someone wants to keep using a tank that has the exemption expired.
Tanks...which ones can't be re-hydro'ed?
- Thread starter Hemlon
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Speaking for myself since I run a Hydro testing facility, if I was presented this cylinder for testing, I would condemn it. Now, before accepting the cylinder, I would let the owner know this and he can decide whether or not to leave it with me (and have it condemned) or take it himself. But if I recieve a cylinder and stamp it/return it to service/ or even test without stamping, I leave myself open to hefty fines from the DOT. (technically, I would stamp it and mark it. I would stmap "condemned" on the crown and X out the markings)Think of me what you want, but im not going to risk my buisness and hard earned money because someone wants to keep using a tank that has the exemption expired.
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In January 2009, while visiting Florida Springs a friend had tanks that were refused to be filled by Ginnie Springs Outdoors (Mfrd before 1988) although they were current on Hydro and Viz. Eddy Current test was not mentioned nor verified. They stated they Flat out will not fill any aluminum tanks manufactured before 1988.
The following day I had my tank refused at Devil's Den. It was manufactured 1989. They had a sign posted that they do not fill ANY Aluminum tank manufactured before 1990. (It was most certainly in Hydro and had current viz)
Florida Dives shops (who likely fill more tanks than everywhere else put together - other than maybe CA?) certainly have the ability to control these things, it's their playground!
I respect any shop's decision to err on the side of caution but this could certainly get carried away and may soon require keeping tanks very close to NEW when visiting Florida!
I guess I will save my 1989 tanks (I own a pair of these) for local diving where I have no issues getting them filled. (for now?)
You cannot get a pre-1990 Luxfer filled in these parts unless you patronize a select few shops and they did your VIP. Too risky for them to trust other people's visuals on the old 6351 AL tanks.
You are better off scrapping those dinosaurs, new AL tanks are cheap and will present you with far fewer hassles.
Scared Silly
Contributor
I do not mind shops saying no to AL6351 cylinders. But the arbitrary date stuff is just BS. When I find shops doing this it tells me that they are too lazy to properly teach those filling cylinders how to properly ID them. If they are too lazy to do that, then they are are probably too lazy to do other things properly (Yeah this is a gross generalization). I had a very interesting conversation with a cylinder distributor regarding this practice - they were not real pleased after I noted that one shop I visited said no too all cylinders (Al and Steel) made before 1990.
RJack - what are shops doing now that the eddy current is part of the requal and not part of the annual VIP? Do they still require their VIP and eddy current test?
RJack - what are shops doing now that the eddy current is part of the requal and not part of the annual VIP? Do they still require their VIP and eddy current test?
Locally there is one shop that doesn't seem to care about VIPs, O2 cleaning, or eddy current testing (that I can tell). They PP blend so that's all a bit scary to me.
Last I knew, another other shop will do an eddy current on AL tanks (6351 or newer alloys too). And fill them if they did the eddy + VIP. They don't care if someone else eddied or VIPed the 6351s - their sticker is the only good one as far as they are concerned. Other VIPs are good from non-6351 tanks, they are just selective about these old ones, and I think its a well reasoned policy on their part.
The other shops have all banned pre-1990 AL tanks (some distinguish Catalina's from Luxfers, some are too dumb to know the differences)
All in all, unless you are doing your own VIPs and fills, older 6351 tanks just aren't worth the hassle.
oxyhacker
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Properly speaking, a cylinder with an expired exemption/SP cannot be condemned, because once the E/SP expires it is no longer a DOT cylinder, and hence cannot be accepted for a hydrotest under DOT regulations. And since it cannot be accepted for testing, it cannot fail that testing.
Also, there is always the possibility (as actually happened recently with both Catalina and Norris) that the manufacturer or some other party might renew the exemption/SP, in which case, if you had condemned the tank, the owner could have a legal claim against you.
So the best thing to do when presented with dubious tanks is to "just say no" and don't even let it in the shop.
A DOT licensed hydro shop can legally hydrotest a non-DOT tank, and they do it all the time. They just can't stamp it with their DOT RIN stamp since doing so would make it an official DOT-sanctioned inspection, and you can't do that to a non-DOT tank. So the tank is just stamped with the date. According to the DOT this is an acceptable procedure on a non-DOT tank which is not being used in commerce, but whose owner wants to be assured is safe to fill, or a foreign tank which will be leaving the county.
Also, there is always the possibility (as actually happened recently with both Catalina and Norris) that the manufacturer or some other party might renew the exemption/SP, in which case, if you had condemned the tank, the owner could have a legal claim against you.
So the best thing to do when presented with dubious tanks is to "just say no" and don't even let it in the shop.
A DOT licensed hydro shop can legally hydrotest a non-DOT tank, and they do it all the time. They just can't stamp it with their DOT RIN stamp since doing so would make it an official DOT-sanctioned inspection, and you can't do that to a non-DOT tank. So the tank is just stamped with the date. According to the DOT this is an acceptable procedure on a non-DOT tank which is not being used in commerce, but whose owner wants to be assured is safe to fill, or a foreign tank which will be leaving the county.
diver 85
Contributor
Rick Christ
Contributor
E9795, is not a good special permit number(it is not active)
Walter Kidde SP AL 80's were also brought in under the 3AL standard and should be stamped 3AL.
Walter kidde stopepd prodicing tanks in 1991 when they were basically absorbed by Luxfer. They were one of the last companies still making 6351-T6 alloy tanks and in fact never made a 6061-T6 alloy tank.
They tended to be a bit heavier than Luxfer and Catalina AL80's, usually have a lot more metal in the neck area, and usually demonstrate a bit less expansion during a hyrdo test. Alloy issues aside, they were very good tanks.
bronk
Registered
I just took 2 old 3AL tanks in for hydro today. The shop did the inspection. One had a suspicious crack in the threads, then they did the eddy current test (at this point that tank failed the test) . The second one passed visual, eddy current and hydro.
It took a bit of searching for a shop in SE Wisconsin that chad the equipment to do this.
It was very interesting watching the process and Matt, the inspector explained each step of the process and I got a chance to see the suspicious crack, which my eye would have missed without it being pointed out. He did a careful job and I was pleased (evn though I now have one scrap tank).
I think the measured approach of doing the inspections properly allows use of older gear without fear and without being forced to turn over equipment that still has useful service life.
The shop that did the work is M & H Fire Safety (M & H Fire Safety - Welcome) in Kenosha, WI.
It took a bit of searching for a shop in SE Wisconsin that chad the equipment to do this.
It was very interesting watching the process and Matt, the inspector explained each step of the process and I got a chance to see the suspicious crack, which my eye would have missed without it being pointed out. He did a careful job and I was pleased (evn though I now have one scrap tank).
I think the measured approach of doing the inspections properly allows use of older gear without fear and without being forced to turn over equipment that still has useful service life.
The shop that did the work is M & H Fire Safety (M & H Fire Safety - Welcome) in Kenosha, WI.
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