2airishuman
Contributor
I didn't link to a study. You're confusing me with someone else.
Then go dive it. Is it lighter? Enough to matter? Less negatively buoyant? I couldn't find specs.
Talk to me about the Conshelf XIV Supreme
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I didn't link to a study. You're confusing me with someone else.
Then go dive it. Is it lighter? Enough to matter? Less negatively buoyant? I couldn't find specs.
R
redacted
Guest
http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/regulators-timeline-eng.aspx
Lots of new regs including the balanced barrel poppet 2nds lke the G250.
But here is a hard to beat kicker: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...adgZfjLpp6tuLQ2hg&sig2=mlU48Qb2fjtOQjAqPj444A
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I began diving in 1966, some of the guys here go back quite a bit further. There were big improvements in regulator performance between the late 50s and 1980, since that time it has been incremental with increasing use of plastics. By 1980 we were beginning to see plastics, composites in use and silicone rubbers. The biggest change was a better understanding of the dynamics of human breathing and the development of concepts of Work of Breathing (WOB) which is a consideration of cracking force, sustained draw, flow rate and exhaust effort. Exhaust effort was discovered to be a huge variable for WOB. Thus between 1966 and 1980 exhaust valves grew from as small as 1/2 inch to 30mm plus or in some cases dual valves. In 1973 the last Royal Aqua Master double hose went out the door, at the time I was working in a dive shop and also as an Assistant Instructor. Like you I wanted everything new and modern and best.
As I stated earlier, some of us have the equipment to measure the above variables at least at a rudimentary level and thus when we say this regulator or that regulator "breaths better" or worse than or same as than some other regulator it is based upon actual measurements, not here say from dive lackeys. I will therefore stay with what I said earlier, the performance difference between a good Conshelf and something like a Legend or a new Core is about 95% thereof. I do not have to say things like this breaths like XXXX or dude this thing is tubular or such. I rank durability, reliability and ease of service over that last 5%.
Regulators such as the Legend and the SP109 and similar that have the "tuning" knob can be set to crack at a lower force (differential) than something like a Conshelf or a Titan/Core. I have generally found this feature of not much value in practice but aside from adding some minor complexity though not detrimental either. It is useful for a diver swimming into current to turn the resistance (spring load) up to resist free flow.
As to weight of the first stage, the Legend first is heavier than the Conshelf and either version of the Titan LX and current Core. It is the one thing I dislike about the Legend and the reason I rank it down in my opinion, I do not like the first stage clunkiness and as I said earlier as well, I prefer conical type first stages with radial outlets.
By the way, I had to replace the housing on my wife's Legend octo (it is a Legend octo) as the case was cracked at the LP fitting and barrel. She is kind of rough on things, not sure what happened. The front cover retention plate on my Titan LX cracked last summer. No big deal.
Contrary to most, I do like the ACD feature and the AL version of it.
N
dumpsterDiver
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LOL..How long will people continue to engage with him? He comes back with one liners from the "dive shop technician" that make zero sense.
Maybe he is just a troll or maybe he is just a young kid who has grown up in an era where we have seen huge and very rapid advances in technology (mostly electronic, but also medical) and from this (limited) perspective it must be hard for him to comprehend that regulator advancement has not been on par with much of the other devices he interacts with.
A regulator is a relatively simple mechanical device and this limits the potential for huge changes/improvements - Moore's Law doesn't apply here. The use of silicone rubber over natural rubber has been a big improvement and extends service life tremendously.
The industry is small and has spent money on marketing and is using less expensive polymers to replace expensive metal - whenever possible. Maybe he feels like we are telling him the 1974 chevy is as good as a modern car (or maybe he is a troll). I'm not quite sure.
On the other hand, there are simple improvements which could be made, but they aren't. The standard inflator hose connection is prone to corrosion, is too small, difficult to work with gloves on and SHOULD be revised, but nobody wants to change the industry standard.
People pay $1000 for a regulator with black hoses, when in my opinion, it would make sense to have color coded hoses to aid in recognition in an emergency.
The SPG fitting with a tiny little air spool is really very vulnerable and weak. The gauge's swiveling function should be supported by some type of robust bearing and the air spool itself should be protected and located internally so it is not subject to stress.
All regulators should be sold with an IP gauge checker.. you get a regulator for over $1,000 and not the most basic and essential piece of equipment to allow the user to check if his life support equipment is working before he uses it.
How about mouth pieces and BC hose connections.. Many are using plastic zip ties to assemble life support equipment when there are many superior and inexpensive clamps which would be better.
It is hard to believe that more improvements have not been made.
Maybe he is just a troll or maybe he is just a young kid who has grown up in an era where we have seen huge and very rapid advances in technology (mostly electronic, but also medical) and from this (limited) perspective it must be hard for him to comprehend that regulator advancement has not been on par with much of the other devices he interacts with.
A regulator is a relatively simple mechanical device and this limits the potential for huge changes/improvements - Moore's Law doesn't apply here. The use of silicone rubber over natural rubber has been a big improvement and extends service life tremendously.
The industry is small and has spent money on marketing and is using less expensive polymers to replace expensive metal - whenever possible. Maybe he feels like we are telling him the 1974 chevy is as good as a modern car (or maybe he is a troll). I'm not quite sure.
On the other hand, there are simple improvements which could be made, but they aren't. The standard inflator hose connection is prone to corrosion, is too small, difficult to work with gloves on and SHOULD be revised, but nobody wants to change the industry standard.
People pay $1000 for a regulator with black hoses, when in my opinion, it would make sense to have color coded hoses to aid in recognition in an emergency.
The SPG fitting with a tiny little air spool is really very vulnerable and weak. The gauge's swiveling function should be supported by some type of robust bearing and the air spool itself should be protected and located internally so it is not subject to stress.
All regulators should be sold with an IP gauge checker.. you get a regulator for over $1,000 and not the most basic and essential piece of equipment to allow the user to check if his life support equipment is working before he uses it.
How about mouth pieces and BC hose connections.. Many are using plastic zip ties to assemble life support equipment when there are many superior and inexpensive clamps which would be better.
It is hard to believe that more improvements have not been made.
R
redacted
Guest
I'm not sure we ca stand much more "improvement". 20 years ago, top of the line regs cost $600. Now they are twice that and more.
Having just looked and read through that fantastic scuba pro history awap posted.. http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/regulators-timeline-eng.aspx
I definitely get what a lot of you are saying. There have been a ton of "improvements" made throughout the years that are nothing more than marketing ploys or cost-cutting measures.
There have been some, though, and relatively recently, that seem to be pretty significant though. Apart from regulators -- as small a difference as it may or may not actually be -- generally getting better and better (easier and easier) as breathers as time has gone on..
The MK17 EVO now has a completely dry chamber. I like that. I don't like salt and chlorine water getting into my first stage and corroding important pieces.
And the A700 is all-metal. Just like the original 2nd stages.
Seems like you're kind of getting the best of both world's (old and new) with that combination.
Not to mention that I get a huge discount if I'm buying something new.. as opposed to used, or from a second-hand dealer (as I'd have to in the case of a conshelf)
**Also. I'm going to be getting certified as a SP service tech at my current SP Dive Shop. And I'm going to be getting parts for life. Seems I could just have said shop order those parts for me.. and then mail them to me.. no matter where I am in the world.
I definitely get what a lot of you are saying. There have been a ton of "improvements" made throughout the years that are nothing more than marketing ploys or cost-cutting measures.
There have been some, though, and relatively recently, that seem to be pretty significant though. Apart from regulators -- as small a difference as it may or may not actually be -- generally getting better and better (easier and easier) as breathers as time has gone on..
The MK17 EVO now has a completely dry chamber. I like that. I don't like salt and chlorine water getting into my first stage and corroding important pieces.
And the A700 is all-metal. Just like the original 2nd stages.
Seems like you're kind of getting the best of both world's (old and new) with that combination.
Not to mention that I get a huge discount if I'm buying something new.. as opposed to used, or from a second-hand dealer (as I'd have to in the case of a conshelf)
**Also. I'm going to be getting certified as a SP service tech at my current SP Dive Shop. And I'm going to be getting parts for life. Seems I could just have said shop order those parts for me.. and then mail them to me.. no matter where I am in the world.
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