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Being the generous guy I am you can keep the spring and adjustment knob...
Talk to me about the Conshelf XIV Supreme
- Thread starter TheShark1
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I'm sort of leaning towards the Conshelf 14 Supreme again. And.. in talking more and more to our tech.. I really am starting to feel that this person has no idea what they're talking about. F*** me I guess.. a new diver assuming that the person in charge of servicing half the states regs was knowledgeable.
I guess the one thing I'm really curious about. When our tech services a reg, the cracking pressure on the primary is set to 1.2 (whatever it is). No matter what kind of reg it is, how expensive it is, how new it is, etc.. the cracking pressure is set to 1.2.
And if the cracking pressure is the same.. the "breathability" is the same too, correct?
I guess the one thing I'm really curious about. When our tech services a reg, the cracking pressure on the primary is set to 1.2 (whatever it is). No matter what kind of reg it is, how expensive it is, how new it is, etc.. the cracking pressure is set to 1.2.
And if the cracking pressure is the same.. the "breathability" is the same too, correct?
halocline
Contributor
Congratulations on your increased understanding about the ignorance of some 'professional' regulator techs. It's a bit like a loss of innocence when you realize the people servicing your gear have all sorts of opinions based on bullcrap. But on to your question....
1.2" means that the effort required to open the demand valve in the 2nd stage is equal to the amount of suction required to move a column of water in a tube up 1.2". Like drinking out a straw, sort of. On any regulator, 1.2" is the same. But, there are many more things that factor into how it feels breathing. One of these is how much venturi assist is present, and this highly affects the amount of effort needed to keep the valve open and delivering air. But there are other things too, including the performance of the first stage and the overall 'feel' of the 2nd stage, which is determined by geometry, design, and materials.
Setting all regulators to the same cracking effort is just another indication that your tech has very little understanding or even interest in how regulators work. He really sounds like he should get a new job. Maybe Luby's is hiring, he could cook all eggs to the same spec regardless of how a customer orders them. That might suit his temperament. (If you're reading this, mystery tech, sorry for the insult!) (Same goes for any Luby's HR personnel who might be reading)
I have a conshelf 14 (not supreme) that I recently acquired in a trade. It's a very nice regulator, but I'll probably never use it. I have (at last count) 11 first stages and 20 2nd stages. Oops, wait, make that 12 and 21. I forgot the PRAM, which in some ways is the best of all of them. As I mentioned somewhere back in the bowels of this endless thread, to me the hose routing is problematic on the conshelf 1st stage. Others don't seem to care about that. Anyhow, feel free to send me a PM if you want to talk about it.
Here's the most important thing, and you should tattoo this on your arm, just like the guy in Memento. Almost all regulators work well, there are many options that would be just fine. Use something cheap in the pool. More importantly, try to find one of the mythical dive instructor jobs in some tropical paradise where you never actually dive in a pool. Pools suck!
2airishuman
Contributor
No, because cracking pressure only determines work of breathing at an instantaneous point at the beginning of the inhalation portion of the cycle.
The amount of pressure required to maintain flow once it starts also varies. We could measure it at different flow rates and plot a curve. It isn't adjustable, as such, although it can be adversely affected if the cracking pressure is out of spec.
Effort to exhale matters, too.
I'm probably going out on a limb here, but in fairness to the tech, I wonder if there are any regulators where the manufacturer's spec for cracking pressure, on a regulator used as a primary, doesn't include 1.2" in the range. Cracking pressure is nearly always specified as a range because it is difficult (and unnecessary) to set it to an exact value. For the conshelf, for example, it's 1"-2", I believe.
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According to the manual .6-1.5". From what information I've gathered from the experts, by experts I mean here on SB and not shark1s tech, anything under 1" is likely to cause free flow issues.
From the factory mine came with 1.3" and 1.5" respectively. I'll dial them both down a tad.
This thread is becoming the never ending story...I think we've entered the 4th Dimension.
I like my eggs in any style as long as it's fried.
From the factory mine came with 1.3" and 1.5" respectively. I'll dial them both down a tad.
This thread is becoming the never ending story...I think we've entered the 4th Dimension.
I like my eggs in any style as long as it's fried.
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CarcharodonCarcharias
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LOL. Keep the thread going. I am learning so much from this thread (aside from the infinite loop re shark1 tech and what is the best regulator to get) that I am actually contemplating on getting a set of Conshelf XIV to play with it.
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Yes, get some if you can, I can't get over how simple they are not to mention how solidly built they are. They'd be my pick if going on an extended dive safari to far flung and remote locations.
oldschoolto
Contributor
History is on the side of the Connie.... Simple and Robust... My grandson and granddaughter that are 4 and 2 will one day be diving with my conshelf XIV's....
Jim....
Jim....
halocline
Contributor
1 o-ring in the first stage. ONE o-ring. It's too bad that damn titan went really overboard on the potential failure points, with two o-rings.
Regulator WOB (work of breathing) is essentially composed of three unequal variables.
1. Cracking effort
2. Sustained flow (Venturi) effort
3. Exhaust effort.
Of these three it has been demonstrated that the exhaust effort is the most critical and that cracking effort is the least. Cracking effort becomes somewhat inconsequential for divers who learn to breath correctly, that being, long slow inhalations and long, slow exhalations. Divers who pant (most of them) of course cracking effort is more detrimental because they do not utilize the Venturi flow of their regulator effectively or their lung tidal volume.
This supposed wonder tech, let me ask this, if we are dealing with a regulator with an adjustable second stage, exactly where does this tech set that spring counter tension when he is setting the cracking effort to 1.2 inches of water? Just wondering because many of us set such regulators where when the knob is all the way out the regulator free flows slightly, cracking effort is therefore nearly zero!
A regulator with an efficient Venturi and a low exhaust effort, even if it has a higher cracking effort, will probably show a lower WOB. This is why I consider the Connie superior to the SP109. The larger exhaust valve, 30mm vs 25mm, alone puts the Connie up.
N
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