Suunto Geeko too conservative?

[tgsmith]

I haven't checked for a while but most liberal computers don't have a setting for more conservative. Conservative generally have such settings.

On Oceanics you can vary when you want it to start beeping at you(consider that your NDL). Your saturation is represented by a bar graph with colors of green, yellow and red(mandatory deco required). There are probably about 8 or so dots that count up, sort of like tally marks, as you approach the NDL. You can set the alarm to start beeping at you on the first mark, or whichever mark you would like. I can't speak for other computers and their functions, but with Oceanics you can be so conservative as to allow you nearly zero bottom time, or much more than a Suunto would allow(and I don't see tons of divers using Oceanics getting bent).

For ultimate flexibility, I'd suggest using one's brain. Like with the Oceanic computers.......set them to the most liberal setting(it won't get pissed unless you hit that mando-deco red zone), and use judgment. "Oh look, it's colder than I expected, I'm tired from swimming in current and I didn't sleep as good as I hoped last night. I have 17 minutes of BT left. I should probably surface with 10 minutes left just to be easy on myself today."

What a clever idea, Joe Diver!

 

[Jorgy]

Interesting thread......

I am not sure if there is a thing as "to" conservative with respect to NDL's.........

The risk of spending to much time underwater breathing a compressed gas is getting bent and that can be a real problem.

To the best of my knowledge all the algorithms are best guesses, there are many examples where folks have dove an "acceptable" profile and still took as DCS hit......

So personally I would rather dive a little less, stay a little shallower and get back to the boat a bit earlier........but that is just me.

Our family all dive Suunto's and I would never change to a "less" conservative computer...

If bottom time is what you seek then go Nitrox..........

M

 

[tgsmith]

Interesting thread......

I am not sure if there is a thing as "to" conservative with respect to NDL's.........

So then why not dive an even more conservative profile than what Suunto gives you? What if I made a computer that gives you a 2 minute bottom time at 110 feet....would that then be the holy grail of diving computers because it's more conservative than the rest?

Where does it stop?

I say that diving is a risk laden activity. You can not eliminate that risk. You can reduce it to a reasonable factor, however. Obviously we all need to decide how high we want that risk to be, however I haven't seen anything to suggest a Suunto is safer than other computers on the market.

To me, there is something as being too conservative. I do what I can, but I'm here to dive. If I get bent, then I get bent. Sucks, but as you pointed out it could happen even if you're conservative and do everything right, and I've accepted that fact. The algorithms used in today's liberal computers are very reasonable. Just because someone comes out with a new computer with an even shorter NDL does not make it a better choice to me.

I'd like to see something stating more people get bent using a Pelagic DSAT algorithm than "Suunto RGBM"(no, it's not actual RGBM.) Otherwise, let's focus on hydration and ascent rates. I'm all about putting my efforts into something that is empirically evidenced to increase my safety instead of just pounding sand and saying I'm safer for doing so.

No disrespect to any diver and their decision, but this is my POV.

 

[sambolino44]

This discussion is all well and good, but it seems to me that what the OP is concerned with is the dilemma he faces toward the end of a dive week, when he's faced with the choice of 1: stick with the group and ignore my computer (if you're going to do that, why bother with a computer at all?), or 2: stick with his computer and miss a dive, or hover above the group, or come back early (anyway, not staying with the rest of the group).

I understand how it can be frustrating to miss a dive because your computer says so, when all week you've had pretty much the same profiles as everyone else on the boat, and none of them are bent.

 

[Jorgy]

Good points.......

If someone had some real science and it resulted in an algorithm with 2 minutes of bottom time at 110' feet then it may be the right computer to go with. I would say that the RGBM model is a solid peer reviewed approach to calculating NDL.....not the only approach but certainly an acceptable one. But that is not the real issue here.....

I think that many folks who dive computers don't understand the "total" picture and the risks associated with diving - and I am not an NDL expert either.

It is the "my computer says it's OK" mentality that I have seen countless times and my own lack of detailed understanding that makes me lean towards a more conservative computer.

When I was in school on of my wise engineering professor cautioned us about computers and the false sense of security that detailed calculation can provide - computers have no idea that the underlying assumptions and algorithms can be inconsistent but they can calculate to 9 digits of precision with implies exactness.....

As you stated diving has a certain amount of risk and a more conservative computer helps me to reduce this overall risk.........

Just my POV, but that is what SB is for.......

M

 

[DiveMaven]

There is simply zero evidence out there that less people get bent using a more conservative computer. There are too many individual factors and variables that go into why someone gets bent and others do not. Thus it is impossible to say that a Suunto is a safer computer because it is more conservative.

Personally, I prefer to choose how conservative I want to be on each dive, thus dive with an Oceanic computer and add my own safety factors as warranted.

 

[Jorgy]

DiveMaven, tgsmith and others.....

There is much more to diving than what a computer tells you.....

Unfortunately, I see many divers on my vacations that don't plan a dive or dive a plan they just use the computer and follow it blindly.....

As was mentioned the best dive computer is the one between your ears and I 100% agree.

That being said, for those folks who are not as well versed or trained a more liberal computer can become a real liability (in my opinion)......

Did two dives on the Spiegel Grove in 2007 another diver was at least 15-20 feet deeper on the first dive and more on the second dive. As I worked my way up the line carefully watching my NDL he continued his dive around 8o feet. At about forty feet he shot past me and was already on the surface when I got to 15 feet......

Back on the boat I asked if went into deco, nope according to his computer his dive was fine.....

He may not have taken a hit that day, but his dive profile seemed very risky to me....

M