Support your Dive shop- Local or not

[mathauck0814]

Does anyone have an example of a dive shop/operation that closed down and people were surprised? Dive ops come and go. The good ones are generally made to shine by the contrast of their counterparts. It's generally apparent when a dive op is making bad business decisions and it perpetuates itself. I, personally, would love to support a LDS in New England. My experience is that the ones that exist are so busy protecting themselves that they fail every attempt at customer service. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong. Until then, I'll continue on with "brick and mortar" shops that sell on-line at competitive prices.

 

[Skinsfan0260]

My local dive shop owner is able to spend one week per month in Cozumel plus two weeks per year in the Caymans plus one trip to the Galapagos and oh there's that trip to Trucks lagoon also. How can I do my part to ensure tat this is possible. By paying $6000.00 for a setup. My wife's Tusa fins were $299.00 or $89.00 from ScubaToys. Now I don't mind supporting my local dive shop but I also don't want to take a second mortgage out on my house to buy equipment. I know the argument you could rent while you slowly purchase what you need. To rent from him for one dive I could buy a regulator or BCD. He makes very good money selling inexpensive Promate snorkel equipment to the hundreds of people around here who go on cruises every year for more money than I would pay for Oceanic gear online. To be fair his setup also included mask snorkel fins and wetsuit I built the exact same setup for just over 1800. on Leisure pro if I submitted it for a quote I'm fairly sure it would come in around 1550 to 1600. now the other $4400.00 could pay for a really nice vacation for my whole family. But instead I guess I'm supposed to pay for three of his twelve trips to Cozumel. I am not against supporting my local dive shop but when is my local dive shop going to give me a break.

 

[Troy32]

I would love to have a good relationship with a local shop. My local shop charges list price for everything. He will never give me a break on anything even though I purchased a lot of gear and all of my training from him. I bought 2 LP95 steel tanks for a little under $800 and asked if they came with a free air fill and he said 'no that is an extra $16'.

Next time I went there to buy a LED light kit he wanted the list of $119 plus tax. I went home and bought it from Scuba Toys on sale for $75 shipped. Some shops make it extremely painful to support them.

I am willing to pay a premium to work with a local shop. I consider a premium of 10-15% fair. I will not pay 80% more. Just does not make sense.

 

[Hoomi]

Well, Skinsfan, I'll readily agree that a shop that appears to exist so that local divers can subsidize the shop owner's hobby isn't a good shop.

The LDS we patronize does a number of trips every year, but they don't jack their prices way up to cover them. From what I've seen instead, many travel businesses will offer substantially reduced or free tickets to trip organizers as an incentive to get them to book the excursions through them. A shop owner with reasonable expectations and good "shopping" sense will be able to offer numerous dive trips to nice locations to the customers, while enjoying the perc of business travel as part of the deal.

This can work very well for a shop owner, in that if they are also certified as an instructor, they can offer cert dives as an incentive for students to travel. We're planning on doing our AOW dives on our upcoming trip to Fiji, and the shop owner who organizes the overseas trips will be our instructor on the dives.

I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but here in the U.S., it becomes much more of a win/win situation for all concerned. If the shop owner can show the dive trip is part of a legitimate business expense, then at least portions of the costs can be considered tax deductible. For the students, we get to do our cert dives with someone we know and (hopefully at least) trust, and get to do them in a beautiful, exotic location.

I'm all for supporting good local businesses, but I'm also a strong advocate for the idea that the best message we can send to deficient businesses is to take our business elsewhere. Vocal complaints rarely make much impact, but as always, money talks - especially when it goes talking somewhere else.

 

[Stu S.]

Does anyone have an example of a dive shop/operation that closed down and people were surprised? Dive ops come and go. The good ones are generally made to shine by the contrast of their counterparts. It's generally apparent when a dive op is making bad business decisions and it perpetuates itself. I, personally, would love to support a LDS in New England. My experience is that the ones that exist are so busy protecting themselves that they fail every attempt at customer service. Nothing would make me happier than to be proven wrong. Until then, I'll continue on with "brick and mortar" shops that sell on-line at competitive prices.

Since 2005, these dive retailers, all close to my house, closed:

Florida Technical Scuba, Apopka FL closed. They had basic gear plus all the technical doubles and backplate gear. Big pool. Nitrox, too. Lasted a year. Great guys. Service was so good I could drop off four tanks for nitrox and they would deliver them to my front door, filled, no extra charge.

Then there was Diver's Direct, Orlando. Closed suddenly. A deluxe diving superstore that was so nice that non-divers wanted to go along on that trip. I got regulator service there, too.

Scuba Quest, Altamonte Springs, FL. They were around for years. I bought a tank and my BC from them. Gone.

Scuba Orlando, Casselberry FL had a picture of the owner as a diver in 1964. They were in business a long time. Gone.

Orange City Scuba. Seemed like the nicest people. They had a big sale, but assured my pal John that his regulator would be through service and he could pick it up. They closed and took it with them.

Dixie Sands Scuba. Sold the famous Atomic brand, and was in a well-off neighborhood. Closed. Maybe this one was not a surprize, as they were close to Diver's Direct. But, some folks really liked them.

Were any of these bad? Maybe one, but I won't tell you which. There were too many stores in the marketplace. It seems the Orlando area has the ability to support seven or eight dive stores and if a new one comes in, it may not last, or somebody else has to go.

I bought a lot of stuff from the first three on the list. I figued I'd pay a little more, but it would be better in the long run. Wrong.

Anyway, the one place that we all figure will close continues to hang in. It's easy to think that "nice" will prosper and "crummy" will fold. But... as retail customers, you don't have the accountant's view of how well the business is doing.

 

[mathauck0814]

Anyway, the one place that we all figure will close continues to hang in. It's easy to think that "nice" will prosper and "crummy" will fold. But... as retail customers, you don't have the accountant's view of how well the business is doing.

Fair enough. We definitely don't have a market saturation problem here as the diving isn't as desirable as it is in Florida. I suppose I could look at it another way and completely agree with you as the crummy seem to have won the NH/VT marketplace (as evidenced by the fact that they're the only ones left).

 

[fireflock]

You guys are nudging around at the real problem with dive shops. There are too many of them and a large number of them are bad.

I'll go ahead and say it. There is a group of Dive shop owners who are terrible for the industry.

Some of them are new to the game, and some have been around for years. A potential diver walks in the door of their shops and they kill the desire by ignoring retail reality, making the dive community seem like a middle school lunch room, or spouting self-serving half truths. These shops are a huge reason that so many new divers quit the sport.

There are shop owners who open a place when no objective business analysis will say that the market can support another shop.

There are owners who offer $99 OW training and make the gear look so expensive that the cost is out of reach for too many people.

There are shops who have been around forever but cling to the gear lines that they think protects their obscene margins (and bad-mouth everything else).

There are owners who demand loyalty and expect customers to pretend that there is no diving or dive gear outside of what flows through their particular shop. They can't accept that the business isn't the same as it was 15 years ago.

There are plenty of reasons that owners act this way, but these are the people who are running new and old divers away from the sport. You can blame demographics, extreme sports, lazy kids, discount retailers or whatever you want. The facts are that I can't just tell someone who is interested in diving to walk down to their local shop without a long list or warnings and things to watch out for. There are just too many shops out there that will spout self-serving half truths, take advantage of their newbie status, and kill the experience for them.

Supporting these shops (as a manufacturer, fellow LDS owner, or a customer) only perpetuates the problem. Running them out of the industry is the only thing that will save it.

 

[OCSPEAROS]

I support too.

 

[Splash-X]

My local dive shop owner is able to spend one week per month in Cozumel plus two weeks per year in the Caymans plus one trip to the Galapagos and oh there's that trip to Trucks lagoon also. How can I do my part to ensure tat this is possible.

The owners lifestyle is his own choice. You're only seeing him as the owner of a dive shop when he could be an investor with his own capital, he could day-trade stocks, etc. After all, he had to come up with some funding to open the store didn't he? Some people work hard in life and there is nothing wrong with them enjoying the life. Do you have proof to back your view point that he is out to rip everyone off?

I agree that if he is over-charging his customers then that's a bad business practice but you can simply speak with your wallet and shop elsewhere.

Well, Skinsfan, I'll readily agree that a shop that appears to exist so that local divers can subsidize the shop owner's hobby isn't a good shop.

The LDS we patronize does a number of trips every year, but they don't jack their prices way up to cover them. From what I've seen instead, many travel businesses will offer substantially reduced or free tickets to trip organizers as an incentive to get them to book the excursions through them. A shop owner with reasonable expectations and good "shopping" sense will be able to offer numerous dive trips to nice locations to the customers, while enjoying the perc of business travel as part of the deal.

This can work very well for a shop owner, in that if they are also certified as an instructor, they can offer cert dives as an incentive for students to travel. We're planning on doing our AOW dives on our upcoming trip to Fiji, and the shop owner who organizes the overseas trips will be our instructor on the dives.

I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but here in the U.S., it becomes much more of a win/win situation for all concerned. If the shop owner can show the dive trip is part of a legitimate business expense, then at least portions of the costs can be considered tax deductible. For the students, we get to do our cert dives with someone we know and (hopefully at least) trust, and get to do them in a beautiful, exotic location.

I'm all for supporting good local businesses, but I'm also a strong advocate for the idea that the best message we can send to deficient businesses is to take our business elsewhere. Vocal complaints rarely make much impact, but as always, money talks - especially when it goes talking somewhere else.

To further that even more, often times when your LDS organizes a trip the charter you are booking with usualy does not charge for the dive leader (or leaders depending on the size of the group). While the LDS must still foot the bill for travel and lodging for the trip leader that is often just factored in to the "total price" of the trip. Sometimes the shop just foots the bill and writes it off on taxes.


I'm for supporting your LDS as long as they are providing support for you as well with knowledgeable, friendly and experienced staff, gear trials, trip organization, etc. If you're spending money at a LDS that offers you nothing in return for support then it's time to move on to another LDS.

 

[goaliemn]

I do try to support my LDS, but its impossible sometimes. I'm a larger diver looking for a drysuit. I talked to 4 LDS's within a couple of hours of my house and none had larger sized ones, and didn't seem too interested in helping me find one. One did say they'd order one for me, but I'd have to pre-pay for it, and if it didn't fit, they'd charge me a fee to return it, even if I didn't leave the store with it.

I talked to Mike at DRIS and the next day he sent one out to me to try on. One from his rental fleet. Well, it fit, and now I'm just gathering my pennies to order one from him. He's done alot to help me decide on it, and now he's going to get my business. Plus he seems like a nice guy