Suggestions for cold water regulators?

[garyh]

Hi everybody of the scuba diving community!

I know this topic has been posted MANY times before, but from what I have found none of the previous threads match my circumstances perfectly or are recent enough due to updates in regulator technology. So now it is my turn to start a new thread on "cold water regulators".

My background: I am a newly "open water" certified diver who lives in Stockholm, Sweden. I've done about six open water dives in the Stockholm area but have always used rental equipment from my LDS (dry suit, BCD and regulator set). All of my dives were in February and March with water temperatures at 1-2°C, but due to the cold temperatures and cheap rental regulators (Scubapro but don't know the model) I kept getting free flows due to regulator freezing. NOT FUN when you have to keep going up to the surface every 10min due to free flows, so now I am looking to get my own regulator set.

I'm the type who likes to buy quality from the start instead of something half good now and having to buy again something better in the future. I'll continue to dive in the Stockholm area throughout the year but will likely also travel with my gear to warmer climates (did my first "try scuba diving" in Florida and loved the coral and wildlife). I plan on getting an "advanced open water" as well as "enriched air nitrox" certificate but am pretty unlikely to do tech/cave diving and wreck penetration, but who knows...

From my research in articles and lists of top regulators I have come to the following conclusions:

• The regulator MUST be environmentally sealed.
• It has to be DIN for me.
• I'd like two HP ports, one for a simple brass SPG and one for a transmitter for my dive watch.
• Piston seems to have better air flow characteristics according to articles i've read, but environmentally sealed regulators seem to be mainly diaphragm.
• I'd like both the first and second stages to be balanced if not over-balanced.
• Nitrox ready.
• Adjustable second stage for cracking pressure and venturi effect.

There are a lot of regulators that are "cold water" rated by the manufacturer but that seems to be a rather broad term. A few models keep popping up as top regulators:

• Apeks: MTX-R/RC, XL4+, XTX50
• Scubapro: MK25 EVO/A700, D420, S620
• Zeagle: F8
• Atomic: T3, B2, Z3, ST1
• Cressi: Compact Pro MC9-SC, AC2, AC25 Master Cromo
• Hollis: 500SE DC7, 200LX DCX
• Mares: Abyss 22 Navy II, Rover 2S
• Aqua Lung: Leg3nd, Calypso, Mikron, Core
• Sherwood: SR2, Blizzard Pro
• Oceanic: Zeo FDXI, Alpha 10 SPX, Delta 5 EDX

An extensive list I know. I have no experience with any of them so I'm asking for your opinions. Any that are truly good down to 1°C with good reviews? Any other regulators that I have not listed?

The setup I am planning is my own sort of long-ish hose (mix between tech/long hose and recreational setup) with some sort of swivel joint at the second stage (for comfort) and free flow shut-off switch on the hose (in case of second stage free flow). What are your thoughts on such add-ons when it comes to cold water performance and freezing? Would there be any problems with them being leak or freeze points?

Don't over think it.
I've had a multitude of regs over the past 30 years and it all boils down to who services them.
Apeks or SP hands down.
Currently using a combo of SP/H regs here for my cold water stuff up here (probably 6 sets) and have never had an issue.
Store another 8 sets down in MX for cave and have never had an issue with any of them (SP and H).
Mk 17's are a solid reg or any of the Apeks are solid.

 

[buddhasummer]

My personal opinion.

The MTX first stage is expensive, has no replaceable hp crown. If you use the 5th port the hp ports are now pointing up. IMO is not a great design, and is not worth the cost of admission.

The twisting barrel on Apeks second stages is a sloppy design considering the price they charge. SP nailed that.

The A700 doesn't breathe all that well in my opinion, has silly screws requiring a tool to undo face plate and is stupid expensive.

I don't need a turret. The cost of the MK19 makes me clench.The MK17 is nice but its sometimes large ip swing bothers me.

The S600 I've no experience with but it's expensive.

Aqualung make nice regs, the legend first stage is huge, it's like a weapon of mass destruction. The Legend second stage is too pretty. Parts very expensive. But nice breathing regs for sure.

I like simple and easy to service personally and 1st stages with removable crowns. For me, talking current production regs, that means the FSR 1st stage and G260 are my picks.

Old regs my pick non ACD Mikron, old Titan and G250/G250V seconds.

All breathe well, reg choice is so personal recommendations are largely meaningless.

Ease of servicing either locally or whilst on holiday is perhaps the most important consideration if you are not into DIY.

If you've the money, servicing is not an issue, buy the set that looks the best to you.

For almost all modern balanced regs the differences in breathing performance are negligible.

Good luck with your search. Shopping is such fun.

 

[Cdncoldwater]

Apex’s or Dive Rite, both work great for me divining the North Atlanti.

 

[brsnow]

Any cost efficient but quality options? I do mostly warm and don’t want to mess with that set up and will be diving colder water a few times a year. Thank you

 

[Downmountain]

Lots of good points! Many things will work and do the job very well. Fit, price, and serviceability will be different for everyone.

 

[buddhasummer]

All regs will work just fine for recreational diving.

 

[Walde]

I use Apeks MTX-R (sidemount) in Finland. Used it under ice last winter without any problems. Works also upside down (because that's what you do under ice) without any water coming through.
Apeks is easy to get serviced and easy to sell if you ever decide to switch to something else.

 

[El Diablo]

Hi everybody of the scuba diving community!

I know this topic has been posted MANY times before, but from what I have found none of the previous threads match my circumstances perfectly or are recent enough due to updates in regulator technology. So now it is my turn to start a new thread on "cold water regulators".

My background: I am a newly "open water" certified diver who lives in Stockholm, Sweden. I've done about six open water dives in the Stockholm area but have always used rental equipment from my LDS (dry suit, BCD and regulator set). All of my dives were in February and March with water temperatures at 1-2°C, but due to the cold temperatures and cheap rental regulators (Scubapro but don't know the model) I kept getting free flows due to regulator freezing. NOT FUN when you have to keep going up to the surface every 10min due to free flows, so now I am looking to get my own regulator set.

I'm the type who likes to buy quality from the start instead of something half good now and having to buy again something better in the future. I'll continue to dive in the Stockholm area throughout the year but will likely also travel with my gear to warmer climates (did my first "try scuba diving" in Florida and loved the coral and wildlife). I plan on getting an "advanced open water" as well as "enriched air nitrox" certificate but am pretty unlikely to do tech/cave diving and wreck penetration, but who knows...

From my research in articles and lists of top regulators I have come to the following conclusions:

• The regulator MUST be environmentally sealed.
• It has to be DIN for me.
• I'd like two HP ports, one for a simple brass SPG and one for a transmitter for my dive watch.
• Piston seems to have better air flow characteristics according to articles i've read, but environmentally sealed regulators seem to be mainly diaphragm.
• I'd like both the first and second stages to be balanced if not over-balanced.
• Nitrox ready.
• Adjustable second stage for cracking pressure and venturi effect.

There are a lot of regulators that are "cold water" rated by the manufacturer but that seems to be a rather broad term. A few models keep popping up as top regulators:

• Apeks: MTX-R/RC, XL4+, XTX50
• Scubapro: MK25 EVO/A700, D420, S620
• Zeagle: F8
• Atomic: T3, B2, Z3, ST1
• Cressi: Compact Pro MC9-SC, AC2, AC25 Master Cromo
• Hollis: 500SE DC7, 200LX DCX
• Mares: Abyss 22 Navy II, Rover 2S
• Aqua Lung: Leg3nd, Calypso, Mikron, Core
• Sherwood: SR2, Blizzard Pro
• Oceanic: Zeo FDXI, Alpha 10 SPX, Delta 5 EDX

An extensive list I know. I have no experience with any of them so I'm asking for your opinions. Any that are truly good down to 1°C with good reviews? Any other regulators that I have not listed?

The setup I am planning is my own sort of long-ish hose (mix between tech/long hose and recreational setup) with some sort of swivel joint at the second stage (for comfort) and free flow shut-off switch on the hose (in case of second stage free flow). What are your thoughts on such add-ons when it comes to cold water performance and freezing? Would there be any problems with them being leak or freeze points?

Any of those regs will do the job and the majority of modern regulators don't free flow easily if you are a little careful.

Now, because you are mentioning Sweden, I can imagine Ice Diving temps so, there are two things you need to understand that cause a regulator to freeze.

1. Exposing a wet regulator to really low temperatures when surfacing.
2. Allowing air pressure to drop for enough time to cool down the whole system (the same way your tank gets warm when filling it with compressed air, it gets freezing cold when pressure drops quickly. You have probably already experienced this if you use a spray can continuously or opened the tank valve in your scuba tank and let air escape for a few seconds).

Water + low temp = ice = free flow.

For the first part, the best trick to avoid any issues is to keep your reg UW. No matter what reg and how much $$$ you spend, if you surface with a wet 1st & 2nd stages, they will probably freeze and free flow. You can pour some HOT water on, shake the 2nd stage really well and and wrap both stages on a dry towel to mitigate this effect. You need to avoid the temp to drop to 0C or below.

For the pressure / temperature drop, if it is really cold, inhale fast (not shallow!) as inhaling normally (slow) will cool the reg even more. On the other hand, exhale sloooooow to keep the reg warm as much as you can and avoid any ice buildup. If you need to use the BCD inflator, use short strokes to avoid lots of cold air flowing.

 

[Chap77]

In my opinion if you can get it serviced near you, the Apeks MTX-RC reg is perfect for cold water diving. The times I have dove it I absolutely loved it. It is a work horse for cold water. I love all my Apeks gear so I am for sure biased in that factor. I would recommend for whatever brand you choose to go with make sure that you can get it serviced near you. This is a common factor that people tend to forget about. Also check how much parts are or if they are covered. For example I know Aqualung has a parts for life deal as long as you keep it serviced up to date.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So I ran across this comment by @tbone1004: Is Poseidon worth it
I'm not really familiar with the NORSOK tests, but you may be interested in this document for Apeks regs:

https://files.plytix.com/api/v1.1/file/public_files/pim/assets/7a/97/39/60/6039977a5fcbfc83f4324b2c/texts/52/26/1e/61/611e2652801317c0a07a90bc/DOC-0304-R-8_XTX%20200_200%20m%20testing_DoC_Rev2.1_signed.pdf

Interesting backgrounder: https://www.trauma-training.org/wp-...K-Regulatory-Guidance-for-Offshore-Diving.pdf

Some info for Poseidon regs: https://cache.tradeinn.com/images/pdf/manuales/eng_poseidon_manu_xstream.pdf

One could argue that this mayh be impractical for most, which is probably true, but if I was going to be divinig in what I consider extreme cold temperatures, I'd probably regs that had met certifications like EN 250:2000 and NORSOK U-101.

That certainly isn't me. But it may be you.