Subjective evaluation of G250V vs. D400 vs Air1 (in Pilot case)

[elan]

Thanks a lot thats very valuable comment

 

[halocline]

There's a bit of an analogy between the D series vs converted pilot and the G250 vs converted 109. The analogy doesn't totally hold up because the exhaust valve and diaphragm are different on the D series vs converted pilot, but other than that it's fairly useful. In each case you have basically the same mechanism in either a plastic case or in a metal case. You can get measurable cracking effort pretty close on the plastic/metal versions of each reg with the same poppet, but to me there's a smoothness with the metal case versions that's hard to quantify but makes a big difference over several dives. I'm sure some of this has to do with the metal case warming (and moistening) the air a bit and the metal case versions appear to have a less aggressive venturi assist.

Elan, in your test, you might try putting all three 2nds on the same first stage so you can compare them with an identical IP. I bet you notice even more of a difference, considering your easiest breathing reg was working off the lowest IP.

 

[elan]

It makes sense.

I think the test you mention makes sense. I will try to make it happen after I get back from vacation in September and will post the results. I need to prepare them to tune to the lowers effort I can get w/o free-flowing put a D400 , Air 1, Air1 in pilot case and G250V together and check myself and ask my buddy w/o providing him the details .

 

[rockinrebel]

I've had an AIR 1 for almost 30 years. The only second stage I've compared it to is my wifes MK 25 / S600.

My old Mark 7 / AIR 1 breathes way better.

Unfortunately parts are hard to find and very few people seem to be competent to service them anymore.

When is Scubapro going to come out with an AIR 1 Vintage ???

Chuck

 

[EdTeach]

I have a Pilot, a number of Air 1's, several D300's, a D350 and an early D400 with the better internals (one piece all metal aspirator/metal orifice and the single flat lever, etc.). All the Air 1's breathe easier than any of the D-Series regulators, which are all about the same. The D-Series are all better than just about anything else on the market today. The Pilot smokes them all. Unfortunately, Pilots are impossible to service nowadays. They really aren't worth buying at any price unless you have a stash of service parts and can service them yourself. The Air 1's can still be serviced with D-Series service kits. So, any D-Series regulator or Air 1 is a good buy if in good condition and purchased at a reasonable price.

 

[redacted]

I have a Pilot, a number of Air 1's, several D300's, a D350 and an early D400 with the better internals (one piece all metal aspirator/metal orifice and the single flat lever, etc.). All the Air 1's breathe easier than any of the D-Series regulators, which are all about the same. The D-Series are all better than just about anything else on the market today. The Pilot smokes them all. Unfortunately, Pilots are impossible to service nowadays. They really aren't worth buying at any price unless you have a stash of service parts and can service them yourself. The Air 1's can still be serviced with D-Series service kits. So, any D-Series regulator or Air 1 is a good buy if in good condition and purchased at a reasonable price.

I just picked up an original Pilot and I'm not sure I understand the service problem. Granted, my acquisition took just a little disassembly and cleaning to un-seize the nyloc nut and get it working. But what is required besides O-rings to service it? Sure, there are some o-ring sizes and hardness parameters that need to be worked out but I don't see that as a major road block.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Soft parts are not the issue. The major hurdle was the problem Scubapro had with techs not being able to properly tune it and the resulting very quick move to the Pilot to Air 1 conversion to standardize on the center balanced valve used in the Pilot, D300, D350 and D400 to create a more or less common service protocol. The ultimate expression of that reg repair philosophy was when they discontinued the D400 to go with the X650 as it used a poppet and air barrel concept roughly similar to the S600, G250, etc. Apparently, Scubapro's view is that different = bad when it comes to service and tech training.

Personally, though I think it says really bad things about the decline in tech quality when the expectation was that a tech could service a Pilot, which was then downgraded to an expectation that they be able to service an Air 1, which was then downgraded to the expectation that they be able to service a D300/350/400 to the current post D400 implication that even that is beyond the scope of the average tech.

Another factor that led to the Pilot's demise was just the precision of the design, the parts count and the production costs. They are almost regulator art. And when the AIr one came out with probably 95% of the Pilot's performance in a plastic case with a simple center balanced valve design, it was pretty much a no brainer to replace the Pilot with the Air 1 and push for conversion of older Pilots to Air 1 status.

Tuning a Pilot does require a fine touch and small adjustments and it has a few oddities - like chattering at depth if the opening in the mouthpiece is a little too small, or the bite tabs are not thick enough and the diver has large teeth.

I service my own but don't provide that service to customers in part due to liability issues, but mostly because if you're going to dive a Pilot, it's a far better idea to learn how to service it yourself as any shop or field support will be virtually non existent. In that regard it's the perfect DIY reg service candidate for someone who wants to take the time to understand it.

 

[halocline]

I just picked up an original Pilot and I'm not sure I understand the service problem. Granted, my acquisition took just a little disassembly and cleaning to un-seize the nyloc nut and get it working. But what is required besides O-rings to service it? Sure, there are some o-ring sizes and hardness parameters that need to be worked out but I don't see that as a major road block.

No, no, you're all wrong. There is a very serious service problem that renders any non-converted pilot for sale on ebay essentially worthless. Please do not bid on any of these dangerous paperweights.



Well, at least until I get one....