Stick With The Winners

[The Chairman]

And, uh, how have they learned this? Most posting here don't show their faces, so how do you know that they're "manufacturers"....or distributors, company reps etc, etc, etc?

Dude,

Unlike yourself, I have access to their E-Mail addresses as well as their originating IPs. I know who is on my board! FWIW, when we see someone with a too nice or too harsh of review about a piece of gear (or resort, or whatever) we check both to see just who we are dealing with. We have exposed many a charlatan this way and it usually comes after a user's BS-O-Meter goes off.

Also, we have the creme d' la creme on our board. These guys and gals are early adopters who see things from every angle. You might fool them for a tiny bit, but don't count on it... and definitely don't try to do it long term.

 

[Trinigordo]

Dude,

Unlike yourself, I have access to their E-Mail addresses as well as their originating IPs. I know who is on my board! FWIW, when we see someone with a too nice or too harsh of review about a piece of gear (or resort, or whatever) we check both to see just who we are dealing with. We have exposed many a charlatan this way and it usually comes after a user's BS-O-Meter goes off.

Also, we have the creme d' la creme on our board. These guys and gals are early adopters who see things from every angle. You might fool them for a tiny bit, but don't count on it... and definitely don't try to do it long term.

On the otherhand there are unsuspecting idiots like myself that just innocently took all the advice from this board I could while picking my gear assuming it was all impartial and genuine advice. And that changed most of what I purchased and so far I have not been led in the wrong direction.

 

[padrediver]

The only things "new" that I see are:

1)Flow through pistons instead of diaphrams(the odds of a diaphram bursting
are about the same as the odds of your car steering wheel coming off in your hands)
(every flow through piston (oem) 1st stage on the market has had a recall!)
(just because its NEW doesn't mean it's better!)

2)Lots of PLASTIC instead of Chromed Navy Brass(way too expensive today with
the chromium shortage!)

3)All electronic dive computers(the 40 year old companies were 1st w/this)



If you'll check, I believe you'll find that 95% of the "leading edge innovations"
have come from those "forty year old companies" like scubapro/aqualung.

Titanium is a sexy expensive gimmick....but...the elastic modulus of
chrome molybdemum/stainless steel is much higher.

Penetrating the old established market is durn near impossible and you
gotta have a gimmick....

"If it works, don't fix it."

In other words, those old companies were first with: dive computers
bouyancy compensators
split fins
octopus rigs
flow through pistons
venturi adjustments
all other important innovations

The only respectable regulator review mag was indicted for "playing favorites"
with their highest spending advertisers. I'd rather have the opinion of guys who
live and die by their equipment decisions.

Just because something has a high price tag doesn't mean its better.

 

[padrediver]

Dude,

Unlike yourself, I have access to their E-Mail addresses as well as their originating IPs. I know who is on my board! FWIW, when we see someone with a too nice or too harsh of review about a piece of gear (or resort, or whatever) we check both to see just who we are dealing with. We have exposed many a charlatan this way and it usually comes after a user's BS-O-Meter goes off.

Also, we have the creme d' la creme on our board. These guys and gals are early adopters who see things from every angle. You might fool them for a tiny bit, but don't count on it... and definitely don't try to do it long term.

Ever hear of Opus One?

 

[The Chairman]

On the otherhand there are unsuspecting idiots like myself that just innocently took all the advice from this board I could while picking my gear assuming it was all impartial and genuine advice. And that changed most of what I purchased and so far I have not been led in the wrong direction.

You are not an idiot... we have some of the finest self-policing methods in the world. Those who would deceive us are ratted out in VERY short order. I have seen it happen over, and over, and over, and over, and... well you get the picture.

 

[The Chairman]

Of course I have heard of opus one... though I don't need it!

Fer instance: I know your connection is through AOL.

 

[The Chairman]

Uh,

about them thar spit fins. I believe that the big boys LICENSE the technology from a very new company called Nature's wing (???). They did NOT think of that one. One wonders how often this sort of thing happens too! Are they merely buying the innovations of others and passing it off as their own?

 

[Trinigordo]

The only things "new" that I see are:

1)Flow through pistons instead of diaphrams(the odds of a diaphram bursting
are about the same as the odds of your car steering wheel coming off in your hands)
(every flow through piston (oem) 1st stage on the market has had a recall!)
(just because its NEW doesn't mean it's better!)

2)Lots of PLASTIC instead of Chromed Navy Brass(way too expensive today with
the chromium shortage!)

3)All electronic dive computers(the 40 year old companies were 1st w/this)



If you'll check, I believe you'll find that 95% of the "leading edge innovations"
have come from those "forty year old companies" like scubapro/aqualung.

Titanium is a sexy expensive gimmick....but...the elastic modulus of
chrome molybdemum/stainless steel is much higher.

Penetrating the old established market is durn near impossible and you
gotta have a gimmick....

"If it works, don't fix it."

In other words, those old companies were first with: dive computers
bouyancy compensators
split fins
octopus rigs
flow through pistons
venturi adjustments
all other important innovations

The only respectable regulator review mag was indicted for "playing favorites"
with their highest spending advertisers. I'd rather have the opinion of guys who
live and die by their equipment decisions.

Just because something has a high price tag doesn't mean its better.

Well my Aeris Pro has a pneumatically balanced second stage and a very decent price tag and I was very happy with the purchase and I would not trade it in for any Mares/Dacor reg. I am completely happy with it and expect it to continue to serve my needs for a very long time. I guess we just have to agree to disagree, and unfortunately for this debate I don't know enough about the mechanics of regulators to really discuss it, but I have advice from divers I trust and you have seen experienced commercial divers use a product so you trust those products. I am also kind of biased for a few reasons, firstly I don't like some of the oldschool marketing techniques of some of the companies listed, secondly I like a product with an accessible rep on the boards, Apollo has MDB, oceanic/aeris has cerich and doug krouse and Zeagle has ScottZeagle(I like to support those that have made themselves available for me to nag and whine to), thirdly, I have no reason whatsoever to distrust any of the products I have purchased from them as they have all served me well and faithfully.

 

[padrediver]

Uh,

about them thar spit fins. I believe that the big boys LICENSE the technology from a very new company called Nature's wing (???). They did NOT think of that one. One wonders how often this sort of thing happens too! Are they merely buying the innovations of others and passing it off as their own?

My split fins are Nature's Wing licensee/Aqua Lung.
I am aware of this.
I believe the original Cousteau-Gagnan patent was a licensing deal.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
BTW, I haven't and won't mention any organization names as far as recommending or denouncing....just comments.

My LDS/NAUI guy said that Atomic was formed when Scubapro fired a bunch of engineers when they sold to Johnson Outdoors. A poster here inferred that Atomic was formed by disgruntled engineers who quit because they weren't
allowed to make a titanium regulator. I think I'll go with the NAUI guy.

Sun's up....I'm outta here.

 

[PARADISE HUNTER]

Recalls happen to all companies in all industries. I feel Scuba Pro is one of the top manufactures of regs out there. But my 650 has been recalled. Companies feel pressure to "keep up" with the competition, keep consumers interested, and make a profit. At some point engineering can be compromised for the sake of time or money. It sucks, but it happens all the time. To me, what is just as important as how often a company has to recall a product, is how they handle it when it happens. In the case of my 650. Scuba Pro notified me of the recall, I called a 800 number, they sent me a prepaid return box for the old reg and sent me an entirely new reg.
I am not a SP slappy, but in this case I like how it was handled and I still feel safe diving with supplying me air.