Standardized hand signals for numbers?

[Walter]

There's no standardization

There would be if cavers hadn't reinvented the wheel.

(why is "three" the same as two, but with a thumb added...while 1, 2, and 4 don't have the thumb)

Because the other option is a W.

and 6-10 look too much like the previous.

Only in the cave system does 6 - 10 look like 1 - 5.

In a cave, there is zero natural light. Having to shine your light on your hand to start signaling can be confusing enough if your buddy isn't looking exactly at what you're doing (if your hand is just outside the light beam they won't see it),

True, but that applies regardless of which numbering system is being used.

and trying to catch the nuances of where someone's thumb is touching another finger would be confusing as heck....especially since "nine" looks like "ok" and "10" looks like "thumb the dive".

9 looks a tad like OK instead of looking like 4, but 10 looks like 1 - 0. ASL has a numbering system that goes to 21 before you start signing individusl digits. That's great if both divers know ASL. Since that is rare, divers simply learn 0 - 9 and start signing individual digits at 10 (I did cover not using the ASL 10 in my previous post). 10 is 1 - 0, 15 is 1 - 5, etc.

If someone came up to me, signaling tank pressure by touching their thumb to another finger I would presume they are giving me a shoddy signal that my backup light is on...

And if the gave you the "I Love You" sign, you'd guess it was Moe Howard trying to poke you in the eyes?

ASL would be too cave usage IMHO.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to communicate with that sentence.

Even if 10 isn't the same as a thumbs-up, I think it's a bit too mistakable.

10 isn't the same as thumbs up. read my post again.

What's confusing about the "cave system"?

1 - 5 look like 6 - 10.

 

[Peter Guy]

Walter -- REMEMBER not all of us dive in warm water. Trying to do the finger gymnastics with 5 mm wet gloves, or worse dry gloves, in dark cold water would be a real thrash.

The "cave" one-handed system works everywhere.

BTW, for those of you who use two handed systems, what do you do with your light -- just let it drop and mystify people when it spins?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

ASL is also great, but it wasn't developed to be used in limited visibility situations. I can easily see mistaking a 7 for an 8 in thick gloves and/or low viz.

Then add cold hands or try doing it with only one hand - and be able to do it with the left or right hand as needed. ASL offers a great deal of precision but it adds more than is needed - sort of like measuring it with a micrometer when you are going to mark it with chalk.

Plus ASL is much harder to learn (and are you talking signed english or true ASL). We'd have a hard enough time standardizing basic cave signs in OW classes - ASL would be virtually impossible in the limited time available and woudl not overcome the potential confusion involved.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to communicate with that sentence.

Me neither -- that's what happens when I delete half a sentence and try to rewrite it without paying much attention.


Probably something like "ASL would be too complicated for cave usage".

 

[Walter]

Walter -- REMEMBER not all of us dive in warm water. Trying to do the finger gymnastics with 5 mm wet gloves, or worse dry gloves, in dark cold water would be a real thrash.

Neither works with mittens, either works with gloves.

Plus ASL is much harder to learn

You don't have to learn the entire language to learn to count to 9. I can't speak Spanish, but I can count to 9. It's very easy to count in ASL.

are you talking signed english or true ASL

No one mentioned signed English.

 

[Blackwood]

10 isn't the same as thumbs up. read my post again.

Ah, yah. I missed that nuance.

1 - 5 look like 6 - 10.

As long as you can discern which side of the hand is facing you, there's no confusion.

In both bases, one has to be trained to properly give signals, but I imagine 1-2-3-4-5 with your palm out and 1(6)-2(7)-3(8)-4(9) with your palm in and hand rotated 90° is a lot easier to teach than ASL.

 

[Walter]

In both bases, one has to be trained to properly give signals,

I imagine 1-2-3-4-5 with your palm out and 1(6)-2(7)-3(8)-4(9) with your palm in and hand rotated 90° is a lot easier to teach than ASL.

Naw, from 5 simply bring up the thumb to touch the finger dropping to meet it and the fingers drop in order - pinky for 6; raise the pinky and drop the ring for 7; raise the ring, drop the middle for 8; raise the middle, drop the index for 9.

As long as you can discern which side of the hand is facing you, there's no confusion.

I thought you said, "hand rotated 90°?" If there's a different side of the hand facing you, you've rotated the hand 90° and changed the palm orientation. Which is it and which direction does the hand rotate?

 

[Steve50]

just remove the reg and lip read

 

[Walter]

Or simply talk. I can understand most folks when they talk underwater.

 

[nilsdiver]

I just had a quick look at the Wikipedia article on sign language. Seems that sign languages such as ASL are not international. And even American Sign Language and British Sign Language have different numbering systems. And the number of different sign languages used international is pretty large. Not sure what the level of compatibility is. But it is clear that not all use the same numbering system.

BSL numbers:
BSL Numbers Signs Page

Since there does not seems to a generally used international sign language I see it making more sense to define a scuba signals not based on one groups sign language (such as ASL) but on what makes the most sense in the environment.