Standardized hand signals for numbers?

[maged_mmh]

Even in this thread we've seen multiple ways of expressing remaining pressure -- "flashing fives", some people show pressure down to the exact PSI remaining....way too complicated. No one wants to sit there and count how many times you just flashed your hands (if you miscount, you are now off by +/- 500psi...), and do we REALLY need to know that you have 1638psi? Seriously? Just the hundreds, ma'am.


For showing pressure remaining, look at your guage and round down to the nearest 100PSI. So if you see 2375 on your gauge, round down to 2300. Why round down? Nobody really cares that you have 2375 psi, we just care that you have less than 2400 and more than 2300. Since you don't actually have 2400, you round down and say that you have 2300.

That's why bar/metric system is becoming more prevailing :mooner:

 

[The Kraken]

Well, while we're on the tank pressure thing, all I want my students to do is to indicate to me their tank pressures in 100 pounds of pressure, that is . . .

. . . if the student has 1900 psi remaining, I want to see 1 vertical finger and 4 horizontal fingers, if it's 800 psi, I want to see a zero followed by 3 horizontal fingers.

But without all of us getting into arguments, perhaps we should give more consideration to the crux of the author's position, why don't we, as a group, push to effect a standardized hand numeric system?

the K

 

[SparticleBrane]

That's why bar/metric system is becoming more prevailing :mooner:

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with metric vs. imperial, and I would request that you leave the bickering out of it.


If I were using the bar system rather than PSI, I would probably advocate flashing pressure in units of 10s of bars.

230bar = "TWO" "THREE"

187bar = "ONE" "EIGHT"

55bar = "FIVE"


------------------------------------------------

Well, while we're on the tank pressure thing, all I want my students to do is to indicate to me their tank pressures in 100 pounds of pressure, that is . . .

. . . if the student has 1900 psi remaining, I want to see 1 vertical finger and 4 horizontal fingers, if it's 800 psi, I want to see a zero followed by 3 horizontal fingers.

While I agree that flashing in units of 100s, I see the zero as sub-optimal -- it is extraneous information. Flashing an eight is quite adequate for showing 800psi.

But without all of us getting into arguments, perhaps we should give more consideration to the crux of the author's position, why don't we, as a group, push to effect a standardized hand numeric system?

They way I just posted above is how I was taught, how all the students coming from the university program I work with are taught, and how all my cave buddies signal as well.

It is an easy system to learn and use, and the group of people I've been diving with have standardized it amongst ourselves. Personally I throw my vote in for it to be the standard way of signaling, but that's just me...


There was at one point at PDF file from Advanced Diver Magazine promulgating the usage of that numbering/signaling system. Unfortunately I can no longer find it. :depressed:

 

[Blackwood]

There was at one point at PDF file from Advanced Diver Magazine promulgating the usage of that numbering/signaling system. Unfortunately I can no longer find it. :depressed:

I wish NACD would publish an electronic copy of "Hand Signals for SCUBA Diving."

Books at NACD Online Store

Either way, it should be required reading for divers. Some of it may be superfluous to the basic open water diver ("tie off here"), but much of it is relevant and SIMPLE.

"look at the beautiful room!"

 

[Walter]

We are I think trying to re-invent the wheel.

That's rarely a good idea and it's exactly what cavers did with numbers.

ASL has a great number system (ten doesn't work for divers, so I use 1 - 0) that was adopted by US Navy divers.

There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. I use ASL numbers, besides, the system cavers developed is confusing.

 

[SparticleBrane]

There was a 100% chance Walter would come in this thread to talk about ASL.

I seem to remember Walter (correct me if I'm wrong) saying he would never go cave diving -- too dangerous.


If you have ever been cave diving you would understand why ASL wasn't adopted for numbering -- it wouldn't work. There's no standardization (why is "three" the same as two, but with a thumb added...while 1, 2, and 4 don't have the thumb), and 6-10 look too much like the previous.


In a cave, there is zero natural light. Having to shine your light on your hand to start signaling can be confusing enough if your buddy isn't looking exactly at what you're doing (if your hand is just outside the light beam they won't see it), and trying to catch the nuances of where someone's thumb is touching another finger would be confusing as heck....especially since "nine" looks like "ok" and "10" looks like "thumb the dive". If someone came up to me, signaling tank pressure by touching their thumb to another finger I would presume they are giving me a shoddy signal that my backup light is on...


ASL would be too cave usage IMHO. The "cave numbering" system is very easy to learn, and very easy to use.

 

[BDSC]

That system makes sense! I'll show my wife that and we will probably start using it. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Blackwood]

There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. I use ASL numbers, besides, the system cavers developed is confusing.

9 and 10 are already taken by more than just the cave community.

"How deep are we supposed to be?"
"90"
"I'm OK too, but how deep are we supposed to be?"
"90"
"OK what? You must be narced. Abort the dive."
"Ten? No, 90!"

Even if 10 isn't the same as a thumbs-up, I think it's a bit too mistakable.


What's confusing about the "cave system"?

ASL is also great, but it wasn't developed to be used in limited visibility situations. I can easily see mistaking a 7 for an 8 in thick gloves and/or low viz.

 

[diver 85]

Yea, I know, one finger for 1, two for 2, etc.

My buddy and I were diving with another and in signaling our air supply remaining using our standard method such as 1250psi=one, two, fist, fist. Seems to work ok for us. When communicating with our new buddy, he was using something totally different as in multiples of 5, like 5, 5, 5=1500psi.

Is there a "standard" method or if not, what seems to work for you and your buddies?

Try this link(& there are more signals other than numbers there too)--similar to what K was saying earlier in the responses....

Dayo Scuba - Underwater Counting Communications, Hand Signals - Orlando, Florida

 

[LowVizWiz]

1 through 5 - hold that many digits with the fingers pointing upwards.

6 through 9 - extend 5 + digits horizontally - that is, for the number 9, take the 4 fingers you would use to signify 4 but hold them horizontally.

So if you wanted to signify the number 90, hold 4 fingers horizontally and then give a zero signal.

Seventy seven would be indicated by flashing two horizontal fingers and then an additional 2 horizontal fingers.

This is done with the right hand, therefore only one hand is required to give a numeric response or indicator.
I think cave divers use something like this. You may want to search the cave diving forum.

the K

Here's a PDF with One Hand Numbering from an article in AD Magazine that I use:
View attachment Onehandnumbering.pdf

Hope this helps.