Standardized hand signals for numbers?

[maged_mmh]

.....
So for 180 Bar / T - Fist - 3 Fingers
For 140 Bar / T - 4 Fingers
For 90 Bar / T - 4 Fingers

...

I think you meant 90B = Fist + 4 fingers

 

[Riger]

I think you meant 90B = Fist + 4 fingers

Yip, well spotted, thanks. I have corrected the original.

Best Regards

Richard

 

[BDSC]

Heck, my wife and my other regular buddy just do this. If you want to show, for instance, 1250 lbs., we just make a 1 then 2 then 5 then 0 with our hand. 1800 would be a 1 then 8 (with two hands) then a 0 and 0.

It works for us and nothing seems confusing at all about it and we don't have to remember a particular system.

 

[Greendiver]

And that is just what we (Buddy and I) were doing, BDSC. Worked fine until our sphere of dive buddies grew a bit to include those with differing experiences. The number communication method was just not discussed pre-dive. (Dang! 5510 psi left, I want one of those fills next time!)

 

[Greendiver]

....and it also reinforces that the best thing to do is decide which method will be used BEFORE they go under. This way even when diving with a stranger they know what to do. One of the first questions I tell them to ask instabuddies or someone they may know but have yet to dive with is what signals they will use.

And this is probably the best advice is to be aware of differing methods and agree on which one before getting wet.

Thanks all!

 

[BDSC]

And that is just what we (Buddy and I) were doing, BDSC. Worked fine until our sphere of dive buddies grew a bit to include those with differing experiences. The number communication method was just not discussed pre-dive. (Dang! 5510 psi left, I want one of those fills next time!)

I guess the key is just know what the method will be before you start the dive. We pretty much just do the nice, warm, clear, Caribbean water diving so for us it's not all that big of an issue. If there is any confusion at all we can just swim over to each other and look. But I can see how that wouldn't be so easily done in a cave system.

 

[vtxkev]

As you get more advanced in your dive abilities, you probably would not be looking to know approx how much air your buddy has, ok or not ok is more than good enough. However, at my current level I kind of like to know and I like to know that he knows, what is left in the gas tank(s).

With that in mind, what other numbers would need to communicated accurately without having to break out the slate? Compass heading maybe? Depth?

I disagree unless I know my dive buddy personally and dive often with them. I do not want some insta buddy or someone who I know through other people telling me ok on air and find out if I have an issue they dont have enough air to get us both to safety.

Also thanks to others who hve brought up good points in this thread as I had an issue this weekend and some communication like this would have helped.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

We are I think trying to re-invent the wheel.

Cave divers routinely communicate psi remaining, and things like "Ascend to 20' for a deco stop of 3 minutes" and they do it in a manner that is simple and consistent. I have not had probems diving with cave divers from all over the country and even from other countries as the signals are standardized.

That avoids the need to try to negotiate signals pre-dive and then try to remember strange signals during the dive. Not having standard signals creates the near certain potential for confusion and miscommunication especially under stress.

For example if you as a recreational diver flash me 2 or 3 handfulls of 5 fingers, I, as a cave diver am going to locate and turn off one of my back up lights, since you just told me it was on. Then I might even point at my SPG to see how much gas you have left.

I'm not saying the cave diving hand signals are better (well...thats a lie - they are a lot better as they are part of a larger system and they have a track record of working in very demanding and stressful conditions and can be done one handed) but they are well established and staqndardized. What are the issues that would prevent recreational training agencies from just adopting them as an industry standard? It would improve communication, especially with insta buddies and it would save lives.

 

[El Orans]

What is noticeable to me is that there seems to be a difference between the Psiotypes and the Barotypes.

Occasionally these different groups buddy up.

Best to include this in the pre-dive chat.

 

[SparticleBrane]

We are I think trying to re-invent the wheel.

Cave divers routinely communicate psi remaining, and things like "Ascend to 20' for a deco stop of 3 minutes" and they do it in a manner that is simple and consistent. I have not had probems diving with cave divers from all over the country and even from other countries as the signals are standardized.

That avoids the need to try to negotiate signals pre-dive and then try to remember strange signals during the dive. Not having standard signals creates the near certain potential for confusion and miscommunication especially under stress.

For example if you as a recreational diver flash me 2 or 3 handfulls of 5 fingers, I, as a cave diver am going to locate and turn off one of my back up lights, since you just told me it was on. Then I might even point at my SPG to see how much gas you have left.

I'm not saying the cave diving hand signals are better (well...thats a lie - they are a lot better as they are part of a larger system and they have a track record of working in very demanding and stressful conditions and can be done one handed) but they are well established and staqndardized. What are the issues that would prevent recreational training agencies from just adopting them as an industry standard? It would improve communication, especially with insta buddies and it would save lives.

DA Aquamaster is absolutely correct. Read his post again, and make sure you understand it. Miscommunication is a BIG DEAL. It might seem funny occasionally, but it quickly turns frustrating for everyone involved, especially if time is of the essence.


In this thread and others, and in my classes I've seen, instructors don't even attempt to think about the importance of signaling -- rather it is left as an afterthought, and sometimes even left for the students to come up with their own system. Thus they leave the class with non-standard types of signaling and don't realize how confusing their signals are until they are underwater with an insta-buddy and there's a mime-show going on at 30ft while one is trying to communicate pressure and the other think their dive buddy has turned into an ape trying to pat it's head and rub it's belly...:shocked2:


Why is this happening? Neither diver was instructed in the importance of good signaling in their class, so they didn't think about signaling until they hopped in the water (and didn't talk about it before the dive).


For starters, what is the point of signaling? To effectively and efficiently communicate something to your buddy. If you need more than a few hand signals to communicate something, time to break out the wetnotes.


If you want to effectively communicate something, it should be SIMPLE -- thus, one-handed signaling is often the best. Adding in a second hand to watch is often too confusing, complex, and you might not be able to do it (your other hand might be busy holding a line, scooter, light, reel, spool, goodie bag, etc).



Even in this thread we've seen multiple ways of expressing remaining pressure -- "flashing fives", some people show pressure down to the exact PSI remaining....way too complicated. No one wants to sit there and count how many times you just flashed your hands (if you miscount, you are now off by +/- 500psi...), and do we REALLY need to know that you have 1638psi? Seriously? Just the hundreds, ma'am.


For showing pressure remaining, look at your guage and round down to the nearest 100PSI. So if you see 2375 on your gauge, round down to 2300. Why round down? Nobody really cares that you have 2375 psi, we just care that you have less than 2400 and more than 2300. Since you don't actually have 2400, you round down and say that you have 2300.


So now that we've agreed to round down to the nearest 100psi, now just realize you only need to flash numbers to your buddy in increments of "hundreds of psi". With both buddies agreeing to this, flashing "TWO" followed by "THREE" = twenty-three hundred PSI. Clear, easy, efficient, and it communicates exactly what you are trying to say...instead of waving your hands all around like a baboon or some such nonsense.

Note that the BEST WAY for one-handed number signaling is what H2Andy posted above.


All hand signals should be DISTINCT and CLEAR to ease in communication. No one likes poorly flashed and lame hand signals that are half-heartedly held up. Stand proud and present those hands for signaling -- and do it precisely so that they are easy to see. Make sure your buddy can SEE what you are signaling. Flashing signals too quickly can lead to confusion just as much as non-standard signaling!


To use DA Aquamaster's example, instead of "thumbdiveascend20ftdeco3minutes"...



"Thumb dive"

<everyone else thumbs since this is non-negotiable>

"Ascend to 20ft.....deco....3 minutes".



Slow and relaxed, with good technique.