Sport Chalet Instruction...new rules

[The Chairman]

So your justification is to just turn the brain off and put your life into the hands of a small electronic device on your wrist?

No more than you turn your brain off and blindly follow your tables.

 

[amascuba]

No more than you turn your brain off and blindly follow your tables.

Not blindly. I have my recreational tables memorized, I always throughly plan any obligated deco dive w/ contingencies and have a few tricks memorized if everything should hit the fan, and I have been studying what makes the tables tick so I don't have to follow the tables.

I'm in no way an expert on the subject, but I do feel that I have a better understanding than your average diver.

 

[amascuba]

Also, I'm not bagging on you or anybody else here for teaching computers during open water, But a good understanding of the tables should also be included in the class.

I've taught many students how to use computers during classes. One thing that always got me though is that all models of computes are different, even though they have the same purpose. They may have a thorough understanding of a particular model of computer by the time they leave the class, but that doesn't help them much when they rent or buy a different model of computer.

Some of the computers on the market right now are so convoluted with "features" that it makes them harder to operate and makes them more prone to failure.

The way that I've always taught students is by going over both tables and the computer pre-dive and post-dive as well as going up to students while they were in the water and made sure they knew what they were looking at.

 

[Cudabait]

sorry. it was the eRDP.

we rent out computers to our students and whoever wants to rent it. I believe in our release form it says that a dive computer is only for backup and you should plan a dive using tables or i guess the eRDP.

Has anyone used the eRDP?

Yes, I've used the eRDP. It id easy to use and eliminates the extra calculation of risidual nitrogen,actual & total bottom time. It does it for you. I suggest it to students as an alternative to the RDP for taking the ow exam. The only drawback is it beeps.

Regards,

 

[MikeFerrara]

They stopped using the tables because they plain don't like them.

I'm not so sure of that. What's not to like? The table gives basic information at a glance...depth, NDL or an ascent schedule. I have dive computers, PC software and palm software and I still sometimes reference a table just because it's faster and more convenient. Most of the time I can get what I need off a table before a dive computer can even go through its start-up self test.

I think divers go to computers for a couple of reasons. One reason I see is just plain sales pressure and peer pressure. Everybody buys one and every shop/instructor will tell you that you need one. It is sometimes easier to play with the other boys and girls if you just do things the way they do.

Another is that they think they need the computer to get more bottom time. I'm not sure which came first the chicken or the egg but divers have developed some pretty funky habits to get deep and still avoid crossing the all important, mystical, mythical and absolutely terrifying "NDL". It is hard to get much bottom time on a deep dive without having to stop...so...they use a computer, do a REALLY SHORT deep dive and do LOTS of stopping. LOL.

Lets take another look at entry level instruction. We recommend these students be diving at what depth? PADI recommends above 60 ft. Are the tables really a problem? Are these divers short of bottom time at those depths? Give them nitrox...a simple table doesn't fit the bill why? What are they really getting from this expensive computer full of beepers, bells and wistles?

ok, now they do an AOW class and do one dive below 60 ft where they kneel and do a silly puzzle. We're really trained and equiped for deep diving now (sarcasm sarcasm).

Sorry but the bulk of these divers throwing away their tables that have been continually referenced in this thread have been sold a bill of goods and all the expensive toys to go with it. I need to start selling bridges.

 

[Butch103]

We teach SDI and ACUC + PADI. We will do either online or in class courses. Gotta tell you there is NO difference in the quality of students we graduate. They know the material, they have good underwater skills and they have great bouyancy control. We also teach the tables. With SDI where the course is designed for computer learning we still cover the tables. But in all fairness very few divers i know use the tables. As far as the comment regarding the what happens if your computer fails; abort the dive! I always look at my dive plan on the computer and having a bottom timer at all times I know anyway how long I can stay at what depth.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

...and yet you still had plenty of time to play around on ScubaBoard.

Ah, cut the dude some slack ... lots of people hate reading manuals. I do ... and I write the damn things for a living ...

Besides most people (especially those of the male persuasion) have more fun trying to figure things out on their own ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MikeFerrara]

If my bottom timer were to die during a dive, I should have a very close approximation to my depth and time as I check every five minutes. If, during the period between the last time I checked andthe point were I find it has failed, I know that five minutes ago I was at x depth at y time. Why would I need to thumb the dive? If I called a turn around at this point and headed back to the entry, I have a damn good idea of how long it will take and what my average depth would be, as I had been keeping track of it for the first half of the dive

So you continue the dive if your depth guage pukes? Interesting. You are either a brave or foolish man. They stopped using the tables because they plain don't like them.

Do you think so? I know what the agency materials and the computer manuals say and it's probably good avice for new divers who are pretty much lost the whole time they're under water anyway. Maybe I've spent too much time doing dives where "ending the dive" means going back the way you came rather than immediately surfacing.

In any case, I can think of lots of situations where I'd be plenty comfortable continuing a dive without a depth guage and I wouldn't feel even a little foolish. In some cases it would be because I am familiar enough with the site that I don't need a depth guage to tell me the depth. In some cases it's because of the topography of the site itself. Lets face it, there are plenty of sites where we could figure the dive as a square dive at a worst case depth.

We have a cute little quarry near the house that has a max depth of 28 ft when the water is high. The average depth is about 20 ft and if you dive the walls where the vis is best and there's the most fish you'll be lucky if you average deeper than 15 ft. The place is one long safety stop yet I have seen divers abort diving when their computers wouldn't turn on. They read their book but they're not thinking.

Even on technical dives I usually don't carry a backup depth guage or bottom timer. I usually dive with my wife and our max depth is never more than two or three feet different from one another. Do you think having an average depth difference of a few inches will have grave consequences? Hint...we always ascend on the same decompression schedule anyway. On a "technical" dive I'd head for the exit because a second failure could be bad news but on a "recreational" dive, I wouldn't think much of it. For a lot of divers it is a big deal because they never learn to stay together. If they don't have their own depth guage, they have no idea what their profile was. I don't think Robert's thinking is so foolish or brave.

 

[SparticleBrane]

What I loved about my NiTek Plus was that it had a manual but also a 'quick-start' guide where every possible menu and button combination was laid out, telling you what each did. That was pretty neat.

 

[neil]

So your justification is to just turn the brain off and put your life into the hands of a small electronic device on your wrist?

Amascuba,
I'm not sure what part of "I have no strong opinion...." you don't understand. I wasn't justifying ANYTHING, I was pointing out that Robert's assertion (as I read it) or justification that someone using tables was more likely to monitor their bottom timer than a computer user, is a weak argument. You see, that's why I substituted the word "bottom-timer" for "computer" in his quote. It works either way. [/banging head against keyboard]