Sport Chalet Instruction...new rules

[MikeFerrara]

I could still divide and multiply with a sliderule today. Calculators had just come out; the TI10 and the next year we had the TI11. WHOA! But, Mr's Hymes was convinced that these calculators were just a passing fancy and WHAT IF the batteries ran out? You had better get this slide rule down pat! Bwahahahahahaha!

I'm not sure why you keep going back to talking about sliderules. Since I'm not an engineer any longer the math I need to do these days is a little simpler but it's there. While shoeing horses on the road it's mostly just in billing. In the shop it's figuring length and weight of stock...a little simple trig, some algebra, geometry and plain old arithmetic. I have lots of calculators laying around but I usually can't find one when I need it and I'm in a hurry. In most cases a piece or soapstone on the face of my anvil gets me by (the paper and pencil equivilant for a blacksmith). It would be a real pain if I had never learned to do that. For more complex problems I just go in the house and use a calculator or sit down at the computer but those things are usually done in early planning stages of a project.

The same with diving. What I have to calculate in the water, I can do in my head. The more complex stuff is all done before hand on the surface.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wish I had my high school slide rule, still. It'd look cute on the wall above all my PC stuff.

Yes, Personal Dive Computer fail - very rarely. I had one fail on my first dive trip, went back to table and got it replaced. Have long since dived with two of the same brand - the same company that makes Aires. The first one was replaced for free, of course, and when it failed again 5 yrs later - was replaced for $80 with a much nicer one.

Yet, so what? In this discussion, the question would be - if I only had one PDC, do I fall back on Tables or fall back on E-rdp? The E-rdp looks more dependable than my math, and easier for the newbie to learn.

What math is that you feel you need to do? At most, even when planning rep dives on a table it's just addition and subtraction but some tables are printed such that you don't even have to do that. Most often you are just following the depth and time (rown and colums) to the NDL...what math?

Yeah, some old salts say to carry the waterproof tables in my BC. Like NetDoc said, they won't do me any good if I am narced - which always starts immediately upon descent and just get stronger.

What is it about a computer that allows you to function adequately while narced? What do you do, have a sing along to the tune of the beeper? LOL

 

[MikeFerrara]

Apparently I am in the 5% of those who do not use a dive computer, not because I don't want to, but I am a broke college student and I am saving my money to purchase the one I want. Until then I am confident diving with the dive tables knowing that if I drown, it is my own fault and not that of a malfunctioning piece of machinery. I intend to continue to check the dive tables before I dive when I do purchase my computer.

I don't use a dive computer just because I discovered that I don't need one for the type of diving that I do. I've owned lots of them and I still have two or three laying around the house someplace. My first dives were done on tables because I didn't have a computer. What a pain it would have been to have had to buy a computer before I could have ever went diving. But then I got one...two...whatever and outgrew them. Looking back, I never needed the first one and it never did a thing for me. Purchasing one helped the dive shop out though.

Admitedly, my dives are either well within what I would consider "no-stop" (the NDL isn't some sharp line where you are safe on one side and in "deco" on the other) or I plan on stops. In the first case, I don't need a computer and in the second I don't want it and still don't need it. This "NDL" that so many divers are using a computer to flirt with is, itself, a myth of sorts. They are using accurate depth and time measurements being crunched in an expensive light box to take a wild azz guess at where that "line" is. It's like using a micrometer to measure what is cut with an axe.

Still this discussion really isn't about which is better, IMO. It's about not giving students the options. If they know about tables and computers they can use whichever they want.

This nonsense about tables being to hard to learn or to hard to use when narced is just that...nonsense. It's just a straw-man arguement.

 

[D_B]

I am going to say something aboot the statement ... if they can't understand old car equipment, how can they understand something new and more complex .. what??!! the former has nothing to do with the latter and those small and simple and inexpensive problems your talking about happened a lot more frequently and were just as apt to leave someone stranded on the side of the road then as now ... how many average people can work on there cars?
Does anyone know what a check eng. light is telling them? ... has anyone read there car owners tables, I mean manual about it? how aboot the other warnings and cautions lamps on the dash?
I went through the changes, have been there since 74... take a look at comparison of pollution standards of today, verses yesterdays .. look at todays cars horsepower , pollution and gas mileage ..even a 500HP vette gets almost 30mpg on the highway and pollutes less than a 4cyl. car did just a few years ago .... do you really want to go back to "the good old days" ? ...

oops, sorry off topic

 

[Damselfish]

I intend to continue to check the dive tables before I dive when I do purchase my computer.

and what exactly will this accomplish? Unless you are doing a square dive the times on the computer will have little resemblance to what's on the table, and probably not then either.

 

[SeaLevelScuba]

Checking your tables to your computer dive planning mode just before your dive tells you exactly where you are on the tables should you have a computer failure.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I am going to say something aboot the statement ... if they can't understand old car equipment, how can they understand something new and more complex .. what??!! the former has nothing to do with the latter and those small and simple and inexpensive problems your talking about happened a lot more frequently and were just as apt to leave someone stranded on the side of the road then as now ... how many average people can work on there cars?
Does anyone know what a check eng. light is telling them? ... has anyone read there car owners tables, I mean manual about it? how aboot the other warnings and cautions lamps on the dash?
I went through the changes, have been there since 74... take a look at comparison of pollution standards of today, verses yesterdays .. look at todays cars horsepower , pollution and gas mileage ..even a 500HP vette gets almost 30mpg on the highway and pollutes less than a 4cyl. car did just a few years ago .... do you really want to go back to "the good old days" ? ...

oops, sorry off topic

Well, all I can tell you is what my experience has been. The severity of the consequenses of car trouble has been far greater for me with newer cars. In my experience, when the electronics start flashing they can't fix it and if they can it is VERY costly. The small inexpensive problems with the older cars did happen more often. they were little more than minor inconveniences though as apposed to the ones that happen now that just ground me.

I do know what the manual says about the check engine light. It says to get the vehicle into the shop as soon as possible because driving it may do damage.

You're right, cars are less poluting and gas mileage is better...None of which helps me when I can't drive the vehicle. Since no one can get it in until next week, it may even effect my diet. LOL

How many people work on their cars? I don't know but I used to but there isn't all that much that I can do with them anymore.

I don't know if I want to go back to the old days but I would rather have one of my old cars back...any day...no contest at all.

 

[MikeFerrara]

and what exactly will this accomplish? Unless you are doing a square dive the times on the computer will have little resemblance to what's on the table, and probably not then either.

There are ways to do multilevel dives without a computer. However, you have to know what your profile is/was. You are right though in that if you just bounce around the water colum trusting your computer to keep track of things for you and it breaks, there is a good chance that looking at it as a square profile will put you off the tables and they will be useless.

My answer is not to do that.

 

[gregorio]

Then we both keep an eye on our computers during the dive. If anything were to go wrong, we can pull out our tables and check to see if we are over our NDL or not.

Sorry I need a little explanation here (not agains you Jahjah but from all that say they use table as backup in case of computer failure) :

I you dive to 35m stay there 2mn then go up slowly. After 40mn diving your computer fail. What will the table tell you? Will you follow it?

thanks

 

[MikeFerrara]

Sorry I need a little explanation here (not agains you Jahjah but from all that say they use table as backup in case of computer failure) :

I you dive to 35m stay there 2mn then go up slowly. After 40mn diving your computer fail. What will the table tell you? Will you follow it?

thanks

Why did you decide to dive that profile?