Soggy
Contributor
CRDiver:
Sorry, I left out the important part. I almost always use a frog kick, especially in an OW environment. That was the part that makes me a wannabe. A strong flutter kick will disturb the bottom 5, even 10 ft below a diver.
Split vs. Regular
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Sorry, I left out the important part. I almost always use a frog kick, especially in an OW environment. That was the part that makes me a wannabe. A strong flutter kick will disturb the bottom 5, even 10 ft below a diver.
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All fins have advantages and disadvantages.
Splits are definitely easier on the knees. Whether or not they're good in current depends on (a) which split fin you're talking about and (b) how well you have trained yourself to use them.
Quarrior's post is pretty much right on, in my experience ... that experience includes about 650 dives in split fins and coming up on 400 dives in Turtles. I've also recently gotten in a couple dozen dives in Jets.
Personal preference is for the Jets/Turtles ... but that's because of my chosen style of diving. For the normal recreational diver, you can do just about anything you will want or need to do in splits, with less effort.
What you won't be able to do with them is maneuver with any kind of precision, or for the vast majority, even think about going in reverse. The rest is a matter of putting in the effort to develop an effective technique ... and it certainly can be done.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Splits are definitely easier on the knees. Whether or not they're good in current depends on (a) which split fin you're talking about and (b) how well you have trained yourself to use them.
Quarrior's post is pretty much right on, in my experience ... that experience includes about 650 dives in split fins and coming up on 400 dives in Turtles. I've also recently gotten in a couple dozen dives in Jets.
Personal preference is for the Jets/Turtles ... but that's because of my chosen style of diving. For the normal recreational diver, you can do just about anything you will want or need to do in splits, with less effort.
What you won't be able to do with them is maneuver with any kind of precision, or for the vast majority, even think about going in reverse. The rest is a matter of putting in the effort to develop an effective technique ... and it certainly can be done.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
OP
OK...I think we're done bashing here.
It seems to be the concensus that "splits" are more efficient then non-splits. Next questions, What brand/model would you recommend and WHY?
It seems to be the concensus that "splits" are more efficient then non-splits. Next questions, What brand/model would you recommend and WHY?
Soggy
Contributor
scuba_frog:
I disagree with that statement.
I found the SP Twin Jets to have an excellent foot pocket and buckle system. Before you shell out the ludicrous LDS prices for these things, I'd check ebay. I sold mine for $75 or something, and then bought a pair of brand new jets for $60. So, at least you know you'll be able to break even.
Got to go along with MSilvia and Soggy on this one as I am a similar type of diver. I am a rec diver who uses a frog kick for most of my bottom time. Frankly I see no reason not to.
Not doggy paddling to turn has everything to do with the type of kick you use. It's called a helicopter turn. Yes it can be done with splits but from my experience not as efficiently. Kicking into to current with splits just is not as powerful in comparisson to using jets.
Soggy was accurate when he said:
As for efficiency, if you stop and think about hydrodynamics, a frog kick is far more efficient in most environments, except when swimming directly into a current. With the flutter kick, the end of the kick cycle ends up with your fins out of the slip stream, so you are arresting yourself while mid-kick. With a frog kick, it's all kick and glide, kick and glide. The fins never leave the slipstream. Frog kicking also doesn't involve the large leg muscles as much, which leads to better air consumption and less fatigue.
This very much applies to a rec diver as well as a tech or cave diver. If you want to extend your bottom time by using less gas, this is the best way to do it.
I would like to know what you base your opinion on when you say that:
someone who primarily uses a frog kick in a recreational clear open water environment. It's unnecessary and inefficient for that type of environment.
Just curious.
Not doggy paddling to turn has everything to do with the type of kick you use. It's called a helicopter turn. Yes it can be done with splits but from my experience not as efficiently. Kicking into to current with splits just is not as powerful in comparisson to using jets.
Soggy was accurate when he said:
As for efficiency, if you stop and think about hydrodynamics, a frog kick is far more efficient in most environments, except when swimming directly into a current. With the flutter kick, the end of the kick cycle ends up with your fins out of the slip stream, so you are arresting yourself while mid-kick. With a frog kick, it's all kick and glide, kick and glide. The fins never leave the slipstream. Frog kicking also doesn't involve the large leg muscles as much, which leads to better air consumption and less fatigue.
This very much applies to a rec diver as well as a tech or cave diver. If you want to extend your bottom time by using less gas, this is the best way to do it.
I would like to know what you base your opinion on when you say that:
someone who primarily uses a frog kick in a recreational clear open water environment. It's unnecessary and inefficient for that type of environment.
Just curious.
CRDiver
Contributor
"A strong frog kick will disturb the bottom 5, even 10 ft below a diver."
I assume you meant flutter, and you're right... remove the word "strong," and use a gentle flutter or modified flutter and the result is the same in a rec environment. The difference is a typical rec diver has no problem mastering a flutter or modified flutter.
I assume you meant flutter, and you're right... remove the word "strong," and use a gentle flutter or modified flutter and the result is the same in a rec environment. The difference is a typical rec diver has no problem mastering a flutter or modified flutter.
agree on this one too - I frog all the time in ow...
And my last class of 10 year olds mastered it..forwards, backwards and turning...it ain't that difficult..sheesh
And my last class of 10 year olds mastered it..forwards, backwards and turning...it ain't that difficult..sheesh
Soggy
Contributor
CRDiver:
Yes, I meant flutter, my bad.
Even a gentle flutter will disturb the bottom a fair distance below. And at that point, you're moving slower and expending more energy anyhow, so why would you chose anything other than a frog kick?
How is a frog kick harder to learn than a flutter kick? A modified flutter can work, but IMO, that's a whole lot more difficult to learn than a frog kick, and not nearly as efficient....it really only has a purpose when swimming through a horizontal restriction where one can't bring the tips of the fins out to the sides.
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scuba_frog:
I'm not sure that's the consensus ... or that you'll ever get consensus. Efficiency depends on your diving style. I think you might get a consensus if you assert that splits are easier to kick. But you really should recognize the trade-offs ... i.e. less maneuveable and less effective for several different types of kicks, and you won't get near the amount of glide on a sculling kick that you'll get with a stiffer blade fin. But if those things are less important to you than ease of use, then the splits are the fins for you.
I rather liked my Apollo BioFins. They are very durable ... never even so much as broke a fin strap or buckle. They are stiffer than some, and I was able to learn how to use them without silting up the bottom ... even in very silty areas. I could scull (I won't call it a frog kick) and helicopter in them just fine. The foot pockets fit me well ... better, in fact, than my Turtles.
The Oceanic V12's are similar to the BioFin except that they're a bit longer. Performance-wise, they're almost identical.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Ishie
Guest
I was finning with the Plana Avantis and they were playing hell on my legs. I've tried out a couple different split fins and really didn't like them. They were uncomfortable to kick with.
I have the Mares Volos, and they are WONDERFUL. I don't know if people have knee problems with these, but I sure don't. They're nicely vented and have channels so there isn't the high leg pressure, but they also get good speed and nice manueverability. I noticed I didn't "trip" on my fins as much in the water if that makes sense. They are great for long surface swims without leg/knee fatigue, and underwater, they feel like they're barely there.
Ishie
I have the Mares Volos, and they are WONDERFUL. I don't know if people have knee problems with these, but I sure don't. They're nicely vented and have channels so there isn't the high leg pressure, but they also get good speed and nice manueverability. I noticed I didn't "trip" on my fins as much in the water if that makes sense. They are great for long surface swims without leg/knee fatigue, and underwater, they feel like they're barely there.
Ishie
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