Spiegel Grove??

[2Tours N Iraq`]

In running the risk of sounding cold and rude, Casemanager, you need to gain some maturity. LJ has not claimed to be an expert in any of those fields and for all he is concerned, he is done with this thread. You came here asking for advice from your fellow divers. LJ happened to be the only other person there the day the accident happened and has attempted to shed a little more light (that you are unwilling to) on the situation and factors leading up to your accident. Whether it is hearsay or not is between you and him. As Wayne Fowler said, it seems that LJ is concerned for you and wants to help you learn. It appears you are more concerned with your own pride than you are with actually learning anything from this thread. Yes, you stated 13 things you have learned but you missed the most important thing mentioned so far: mindset. Have there been times on this thread where it appeared someone was insulting you, yes. Is that the case most of the time, I don't think so. What I do think is there has been several posts of constructive criticism. If you are the type of person who does not learn from constructive criticism then you need to state that so we can tailor our answers to where you can best learn from it. Just for my edification I checked out your profile only to discover a complete lack of information. I'm not sure the reason you came on this forum but I truely hope you can get something out of this even if it wasn't what you came looking for.

 

[Nautical-wheelers]

1st and foremost, I am glad you are OK. I am a novice diver who has Panic Anxiety Disorder, which means I need to take precautions. My dives are always well planned, within my limits, and always with the same dive-buddy, who is also my husband. We are considering the SG, but not until we have obtained DM status ourselves. That will be our "Coming of age" ritual, so to speak.

As I am going to be diving out of Key West from 10/31 thru 11/7, I would really like to know the Dive Operation you went with.

 

[dkktsunami]

Nautical - wheelers: Welcome to the diving community. Would suggest that you slow down a little - 15 dive history and AOW/nitrox? Scuba is a sport of very little baby steps,accumulated knowledge, and increasing comfort in the water. You have already acknowledged anxiety disorder so please go slowly. This is how "Case" got in trouble, and probably had very little to do with the dive operation. Tsunami.

 

[MikeFerrara]

perhaps i have been incorrect? however without this terrible industry what gear would you dive with, where would you go diving and who would take you out on those island dive holidays so you could enjoy those untouched reefs. yes as much as you may not be part of any agency or belong to any scuba manufacturer you are still in need of this industry. no industry no sport of diving no dive community.

some one will sell equipment if there's any buyers. Personally, I don't do any of my diving at resorts. Too much of this kind of stuff going on at those places. I do use a few local charters but VERY FEW. I guess this is off topic though.

Anyway as per my earlier posts I still don't think there is any thing wrong with good solid advice and encouragement to people who are seeking help. the agencies have there good and bad points but this is not really about them is it. this thread is about someone asking for help. not the finer points as to why the agencies and the dive industry suck!

As time has gone by I've found myself having a harder and harder time finding anything good about the agencies and stopped sending any of them money. However, this diver did go on a dive that was inappropriate for his skill and experience level. the results are proof of that. Things like this happen often and I see a direct relationship between the indidents and training standards. the diver may have madfe some poor choices but when you are in training the instructor whould help you make choices. That's WHY you are getting training. Accidents do happen and people screw up. That won't ever stop. However, there are far too many accidents/near misses especially in AOW deep dives (in this case a wreck dive at the same depths). IMO, the explaination for this can be found in the training standards in black and white. I've already pointed out some of the specific points in the standards that I feel are the problem.

There are lots of things we can tell this diver that might help. One that has repeatedly come up in this thread is not diving beyond your skill level and experience or taking too big of steps. But...training standards and instruction being what it is the first two things I'd recommend (assuming medical fitness of course) would be to find a good mentor and/or an instructor who holds him/her self to a much higher standard than the agencies do. Beyond that there is the seemingly obvious point that you should develop skills shallow vefor bothering to go deep. The agencies disagree though because the skills I'm refering to aren't even required of instructors.

I absolutely believe in personal responsibility but when you are following the directions of an instructor, who you are paying specifically to give you those directions, then the instructor as well as the agency share in the responsibility.

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

Dependance and being guided is all very well for Discover Scuba, but OW divers need to display a measure of independence....

 

[LJinFLA]

Otherwise I will only contribute again if asked to,

As promised, when asked I will contribute. So casemanager, since you asked:

I would like LJ to report to you all the medications he uses, the other diver's medications, etc.

I take one 81mg Bayer aspirin, and one multi vitamin per day. The last prescription drug I took was 5 years ago when I took an antibiotic for an upper respiratory infection. The last over the counter medication I took was a cold remedy about a year ago for cold symptoms. I can't speak for the other divers. I do not know. OK, now your turn...

By the way LJ, are you DAN Qualified ...

As a mater of fact, after this incident, and watching and assisting in giving you care on the boat, I have signed up for a DAN Diving Emergency Management Provider Program with a local instructor in order to upgrade my current Red Cross Certifications with more diving specific knowledge. Also, Prior to that dive experience with you, I had signed up with the same instructor you had for this dive to do his Naui Rescue Diver class in the first two week of November. After watching him handle your situation on board I am certain he will be a good instructor for that course.

Just for the record, the stuff about you not ever talking to me is a bunch of bunk. We had dinner together both Friday and Saturday with the group, we talked extensively on the boat before and after the dive, even while you were on oxygen. We talked on the deck at the hotel after you got out of the chamber with part of the group. You should know who I am, but if not, so much the better.

Until the next time I am asked...

LJ

 

[scubak]

There are some good points on this thread....but, now can we let it go?
It seems that there is a lot of beating a dead horse.
Go Dive!!!
K

 

[TheRedHead]

There are some good points on this thread....but, now can we let it go?
It seems that there is a lot of beating a dead horse.
Go Dive!!!
K

This horse is still runnin' We wait for the next hoof to drop.

We don't know:
what CM felt before the dive,
what was going through his mind during the descent,
if he did his AOW deep skills with his instructor,
if he even read the Deep chapter in the AOW book,
and I'm sure you all can think of many other things we don't know.

It's interesting at least.

 

[casemanager]

how can you say my instructor did the rescue, he held my hand, but his wife was super supportive. He took off my knife after I told him, his wife got towels to cover me up. The best person was the dry DM and the boat captain, they were the ones who rescued me, they gave me 2 bottles of o2, the boat captain was the most proficient person as he originally ordered O2, he then called the Coat Guard and EMS to EVAC me. He rushed me to the nearest port. My instructor really didnt do anything but be a supportive friend which was fine. Like I said I wasnt here to blame. Did my instructor do a underwater search and rescue? Actually after learning about this, the correct body posture for me was to lie on my side. I was the one who layed down on my own. The other instructor was very good and close to me, he seemed to be knowledgeable more then my instructor. Just remember LJ, there should be at least 2 02 bottles on board. I know what medications I take and I know why I take them, I know their effects and I know their interactions. For me to dsicuss my individual medications, well this is not the place. Thats between my doctor, my instructor, and myself. Its not for a public web page. I dont have panic disorder or I wouldnt of never dived. Thats crazy for someone to dive deep with panic disorder. The most inclusive data that I can bring to this arena is that the transdermal scope patch must of played a role in the vertigo, this was the first time I used it diving. Plus, this was the first time I had used Nitrox deep. In fact this was the 3rd time I used nitrox ever. Did I fill my tank, No, I got it from my instructor which was sitting in the back of his truck for 2 days unwatched. Who knows!! If I told you about my Nitrox checout dive, you would be astonished, my instructor did not even check me out, he joined me up with a group of hunters and they were busy lobster hunting off Palm Beach, so I never got any skills training underwater from my instructor. In fact the second dive, I got totally seperated from the group and aborted my dive on my own because I have never learned to dive by myself, I am not trained on Nitrox to be by myself, I should of saw that as an indicator on how the instruction of my instructor was a little bit relaxed then what I am use too.

 

[LJinFLA]

how can you say my instructor did the rescue, .

I didn't, read again.

LJ