Spiegal Grove Diving Tax
- Thread starter Turtle Diver
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metridium once bubbled...
and start losing...say $10?
Did you loose it or invest it wisely?
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That's a wonderful attitude for a supposed dive professional to project. Maybe KL should just ban all YMCA divers (all 4 of them)?
Tom
Beachman
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....that the dive shops are accountable for the tags they are given.
I'm not a dive shop owner, so I can't attest by knowledge. I do know that at least one shop keeps their tags under lock and key because I am told that each tag not accounted for with $10 to some "big daddy in the sky" will cost the shop $10 out of their pocket which they commited to extract from the public.
Sounds like a pretty solid system to me......voluntary for the public, but a commitment from the local dive community.
I'm not a dive shop owner, so I can't attest by knowledge. I do know that at least one shop keeps their tags under lock and key because I am told that each tag not accounted for with $10 to some "big daddy in the sky" will cost the shop $10 out of their pocket which they commited to extract from the public.
Sounds like a pretty solid system to me......voluntary for the public, but a commitment from the local dive community.
Okay, it is my understanding which has been brought up before that yes the dive shop does purchase the tags.
When you "donate" the $10, it is good for only the year you purchase it. If you buy it on January 1st of 2002 it is good until December 31st of 2002. If you buy it on December 30th of 2002, it is good until December 31st of 2002. etc.
There are no records kept, and no way of tracking it. You could let your buddy use it if you want.
I look at it this way, and it may only be because I am a new diver, but a small $10 "donation" to dive any wreck in the keys, is well worth it. Remember, not everyone in the world gets to see the underwater world as we divers get to, and you knew from the beginning that diving wasn't cheap and you had to expect that every now and then you get a small fee/tax/donation required or requested.
When you "donate" the $10, it is good for only the year you purchase it. If you buy it on January 1st of 2002 it is good until December 31st of 2002. If you buy it on December 30th of 2002, it is good until December 31st of 2002. etc.
There are no records kept, and no way of tracking it. You could let your buddy use it if you want.
I look at it this way, and it may only be because I am a new diver, but a small $10 "donation" to dive any wreck in the keys, is well worth it. Remember, not everyone in the world gets to see the underwater world as we divers get to, and you knew from the beginning that diving wasn't cheap and you had to expect that every now and then you get a small fee/tax/donation required or requested.
I don't believe that anyone has a complaint about the amount. What I am hearing is a question/complaint about the seemingly involuntary nature of a supposedly voluntary fee. It's not the principal, it's the principle - an important distinction.
So, let's rephrase the question and see if that helps facilitate the conversation:
Is it acceptable policy that private business (the Keys Chamber of Commerce and its ancillary dive shops) gets to develop (sinking the Speigel Grove) a public facility (the Keys National Marine Sanctuary) for private commercial purpose (selling dive charters) and to fund that development by requiring payment of a "voluntary fee" (the dive medallion) by the public in order to access that public facility?
Remember, this is a public facility. Essentially at the request of the residents of the Keys, the U.S. Congress stepped in 20-ish years ago and took over the administration of the area because the State of Florida and the Keys themselves were unable to manage the resource on their own. That means that everyone (all U.S. citizens) has a say in how the facility is used.
The dive medallion may not qualify as a tax, but that's pretty much a technical argument. De jure or de facto, it's still a tax, or at least close enough to warrant the argument. Those who would split hairs and hide behind semantics diminish their credibility. Better to focus the discussion on the advisability and propriety of the tax, lest you become the butt of ridicule, a la Bill Clinton.
I don't like the idea of taxes - keep your hands out of my pockets, please. I especially don't like taxes that go to pay for development of public facilities. It's even worse when that development is intended to generate profits for private enterprise. Combine all three, when it's a tax that pays for development of public facilities for private profit, and I become truly aggravated. Arguing "but it's only a little tax" is salt in the wound. As an aside, although the fee was implemented to pay for the sinking of the Speigel Grove, does anyone think it will be eliminated once that goal has been achieved?
I haven't had the chance to dive the Speigel Grove yet, but I will this December. When I do, I fully intend to give the dive shop a cattle boat-load of grief about the "required voluntary fee." I'm also not going to have to pay it, because I already chipped in and bought my medallion earlier this year to support the creation of what I figured would be a really cool dive site. Call it a compromise of my principles based upon enlightened self-interest.
Steven
p.s. You don't have to wait to get to Florida to pop for your medallion. The folks at Divers Direct will sell you one. It's still a !@#$$@# tax, but it's also an investment that pays a lot of dividends. Even if a dive trip to Florida isn't in your plans, it's still possible to kick a few dollars into the kitty.
So, let's rephrase the question and see if that helps facilitate the conversation:
Is it acceptable policy that private business (the Keys Chamber of Commerce and its ancillary dive shops) gets to develop (sinking the Speigel Grove) a public facility (the Keys National Marine Sanctuary) for private commercial purpose (selling dive charters) and to fund that development by requiring payment of a "voluntary fee" (the dive medallion) by the public in order to access that public facility?
Remember, this is a public facility. Essentially at the request of the residents of the Keys, the U.S. Congress stepped in 20-ish years ago and took over the administration of the area because the State of Florida and the Keys themselves were unable to manage the resource on their own. That means that everyone (all U.S. citizens) has a say in how the facility is used.
The dive medallion may not qualify as a tax, but that's pretty much a technical argument. De jure or de facto, it's still a tax, or at least close enough to warrant the argument. Those who would split hairs and hide behind semantics diminish their credibility. Better to focus the discussion on the advisability and propriety of the tax, lest you become the butt of ridicule, a la Bill Clinton.
I don't like the idea of taxes - keep your hands out of my pockets, please. I especially don't like taxes that go to pay for development of public facilities. It's even worse when that development is intended to generate profits for private enterprise. Combine all three, when it's a tax that pays for development of public facilities for private profit, and I become truly aggravated. Arguing "but it's only a little tax" is salt in the wound. As an aside, although the fee was implemented to pay for the sinking of the Speigel Grove, does anyone think it will be eliminated once that goal has been achieved?
I haven't had the chance to dive the Speigel Grove yet, but I will this December. When I do, I fully intend to give the dive shop a cattle boat-load of grief about the "required voluntary fee." I'm also not going to have to pay it, because I already chipped in and bought my medallion earlier this year to support the creation of what I figured would be a really cool dive site. Call it a compromise of my principles based upon enlightened self-interest.
Steven
p.s. You don't have to wait to get to Florida to pop for your medallion. The folks at Divers Direct will sell you one. It's still a !@#$$@# tax, but it's also an investment that pays a lot of dividends. Even if a dive trip to Florida isn't in your plans, it's still possible to kick a few dollars into the kitty.
WreckWriter,
"That's a wonderful attitude for a supposed dive professional to project."
I agree. It is a wonderful attitude for anyone to project. We all need to protect our rights all the time.
"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
"That's a wonderful attitude for a supposed dive professional to project."
I agree. It is a wonderful attitude for anyone to project. We all need to protect our rights all the time.
"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
Jarhead
Contributor
Agreed. We all need to protect our rights all the time. Agreed.
But to create an artificial reef in a National Marine Sanctuary is not a right, its a privilege. And to dive that artificial reef is not a right, its a privilege. And we should not lose the distinction between rights and privileges.
Respectfully submitted,
Philip (Jarhead) Alexander
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