spare air

[Trickie Dickie 99]

And what is that thing floating over his head?

You're obviously the expert mate, you tell me. :blinking:

 

[ReefHound]

Imagine yourself at 100 ft and an LP hose detaches from the fitting at the 2nd stage. You have no pony and your buddy in not to be found!!!! Its time for a cESA. Would you rather do it with a spare air or without one?

I would think you could breathe longer from a freeflowing LP hose than a spare air, esp. if you shut down the tank quickly and feather it open just for an occasional breath.

Of course, if a big sharkie rips the whole tank off your back, you'd want the spare air.

 

[Steve R]

Let that be a lesson to you Jeff, If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly. You mean SOB.



Oh yah, the pigeon has flown..........happy viewing.

 

[redacted]

I would think you could breathe longer from a freeflowing LP hose than a spare air, esp. if you shut down the tank quickly and feather it open just for an occasional breath.

Of course, if a big sharkie rips the whole tank off your back, you'd want the spare air.

I'm not sure. I ment to have the failure occur at the 1st stage to prevent that option in my little scenario. The point is simple. Spare air is a lousy option for redundant gas but it is not as bad as some folks (who probably have never tried one) would make it out to be. It will not get you to the surface in a normal, safe fashion. But it will give you a few (5 to 10) breaths that will let you take a bit more time than you would have with just that last breath you took from your tank. I don't believe I would have any trouble at all comfortably making it to the surface from 100 ft on a spare air. And I think I probably could make it without one but I really would not want to try that. I do know my pony will do it quite comfortably within all applicable safety considerations.

 

[paulwlee]

I don't believe I would have any trouble at all comfortably making it to the surface from 100 ft on a spare air.

I'll have to agree with awap. If you HAVE to dive solo for some reason and the only choice is between a spare air and nothing, the spare air is better than nothing and it does make the ascent safer than a full blown CESA. Let's call it a CESA with crutches.

Now if the question is when trying to set up a redundant air source what is needed, then a 19cf or larger pony is what's needed, which is why I guess awap uses one, and why I used it when I used to solo dive.

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

Actually, that's how I used to judge whether to listen to someone or not.....looking at their gear set-up and watching them dive.

It speaks way more about what they know, vs. what they think they know, any day. :shakehead

OK, cards on the table.

1. I have not undertaken DIR/GUE/Technical/Whatever training.

2. My original recreational training was back in the early 80s, I qualified through BSAC. I dived on and off and then emigrated to Australia in 1987, and subsequentlly had a lay-off from diving until the late 90s. (kids, building a house, 10 yrs in Aermy Reserve etc etc.)

3. Shortly after I got back into diving, I decided I needed a pony after the Cairns incident and later reading (on forums such as this) about pony cylinders.
AFAIK, I'm the only person in my club and the only diver in my part of the world I know of that uses a pony but notwithstanding that, I decided that one for me would be a damn good idea. Most BSAC divers in the UK certainly use a pony or twins but as the US - based PADI and SSI are dominant here in Aus, ponies are only fleetingly mentioned on courses, nor are they encouraged (why is this?)

4. Unfortunately, there was no one here who really knew much about the use or setup of a pony, that I could go to with advice. (others who have gone for redundancy have used twins). Initially, I used a pony clamp to hold it to my main cylinder but decided after a year or so that I wasn't keen on that, for a number of reasons, so I decided to give side slinging a try.

5. Asked around on the www, in various forums (UK based) for advice on setting up the rig and was directed amongst oher things, towards the DIR sites quoted earlier:

http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/st...e_rigging.html
http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/re...ig_stages.html

I put in some of my own modifications (which work for me), for my own reasons, which I'd be happy to discuss. In particular, I used the hosewrap around the hose clamps on the cylinder, because I'd seen it elsewhere and figured that it would reduce the risk of salt & grit building up under there. (compared with rubber inner tube sections). I fixed the upper scissor clip direct to the neck of the cylinder with another hose clamp, because I personally felt that would be more secure than simply running a loop around the cylinder valve. In the fullness of time, I might try something else more to the liking of the collective wisdom and then I'll post another photo and beg everyone's forgiveness. (not)

6. As for vertical v horizontal on a stop, well tbh I can't be arsed with it, PADI, BSAC, SSI etc all teach that you can do a stop vertical so it's good enough for me. My dives are all well with in no stop limits and I do a precautionary 5 at 5, (as is the custom hereabouts) rather than a 5 at 3, or a 3 at 5 or 1 at 6. I figure that deco science is not specifically tailored to the individual, just the broad average and as different agencies all have their own dogma on this, they aren't all right and they certainly aren't all wrong either, so what the hell, I'll just do what's comfortable for me. I know that horizontal is probably best, just as I know I shouldn't eat bacon sandwiches, pies & burgers, I shouldn't drink beer and I should eat more salads and less additives and slow down on the road.

In the meantime, I'll shoot up my DSMB clip the reel to my shoulder, dump some air and hang there having a little doze for 5 mins, or, as in the picture, adjusting my bcd harness or even giving my arse a scratch. Yeah, I know, a boat could run it over, never clip off on your DSMB etc etc but it's wht I do and it suits me fine.

7. What I don't do and never have done is try to tell others how things must be done; you'll note in my first post on this thread, that I wrote

"This is just the way I do it though, others, including you may/will find other ways which work for them."

The general discussion was on the SpareAir and got onto ponies and I responded by posting some pics I already had available, to show what I had done to address this issue for myself. (something only one other poster did)

Now I'm sincerely sorry* if my solution doesn't strictly meet DIR protocols but that's just the way it is. I guess I'll just have to continue being a happy little Stroke won't I?

*(Actually, I'm lying, I really don't give a sh_t)

In other respects.....yes, I did have a major trim (and buoyancy) problem on that dive, which was my first one in a month; the previous dive, I'd tried out a new neoprene drysuit but had forgotten to remove the excess weight on my subsequent dive in membrane suit and summer weight undersuit; subsequently reliseds I was carrying double my normal amount of lead, so trying to hold 5m on the deco was tricky, I was up & down like a wh0re's draws, hence the DSMB clipped on... So well spotted.

Now finally Steve, returning to your quote:

Actually, that's how I used to judge whether to listen to someone or not.....looking at their gear set-up and watching them dive.

It speaks way more about what they know, vs. what they think they know, any day. :shakehead

I'll tell you a little story - about a year ago, I was diving off a charter boat locally and had the misfortune to be out there with a pair of divers who were DIR trained and equipped, both with gear and attitude (DIR no worries, attitude was well off though); they spent the whole trip out taking the piss out of my "recreational" gear, my antique Conshelf 14, my sh_thouse pony rig and my technicolor drysuit. Anyway, not particularly wanting a confrontation with two loud mouths half my age, I just laughed it off as best I could.

Funny thing was to see the worm turn as they did the old giant stride into 40M of water and one of them had forgotten to turn his air on. Watching a bloke furiously treading water in a nasty chop, trying to get a breath, and scream for help, loaded with a twinset and gawd knows how much weight, with a deflated wing and drysuit would have been almost funny if it hadn't been so serious.

That is my only experience of DIR trained divers, looking at their gear set-up and then watching them dive, (all the gear, no idea etc), so Steve, on that first & last point, maybe you are absolutely right. You tell me?

And finally, forgive the long-winded post but it's a public holiday here.

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

OK, sports fans, if you want to question his rig, do it in a different thread, OK?

Let's rein this one back in.

The Kraken

And make sure you invite me in, I'm always happy & willing to learn.

 

[ReefHound]

OK, cards on the table.

OK, ya gotta admit, this guy's pretty cool. :14:

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

Huh? Did someone answer the OP by posting a picture of something that was not strictly DIR?

Oh Dear!

Richard - you are going to have to stop baiting people like that.

For the OP: as you now realise not only is a pony/stage the way to go, but be warned a lot of people take how it is setup and slung very seriously.

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

Huh? Did someone answer the OP by posting a picture of something that was not strictly DIR?

Oh Dear!

Richard - you are going to have to stop baiting people like that.

For the OP: as you now realise not only is a pony/stage the way to go, but be warned a lot of people take how it is setup and slung very seriously.

Hi Roh. Yes, I'm a bugger for that, I have to admit . Any news on your itinerary yet? Might be up for a dive to TroyD & Isles de Phoques (with Island Divers) if you fancy it. Water was a balmy 17C and 20M vis at Lagoon Bay Kelp Forest this w/e.