Spare Air & Pony Tank

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I wonder if there are any stats avaible on the use of Spare Air bottles. Has anyone died or been injured while using one. Has anyone survived because of one. I would think that a spare air would be better than just an octo. Sure it would be nice to get an large pony, but if a spare air was available would you leave it behind just because you don't like them.
 
pmartin2237:
If you had just gotten yourself into a bad situation that required the use of one of your backups which one would it be first.

I have a spare air but there is no place for it in solo diving I use a pony rig or doubles for solo diving the spare air is more of a pool toy.
 
Mandy3206:
I always dive with my Spare Air.


If you have to deco or do a mandatory safety stop, you probably need a pony bottle to do it, but if you dive in the NDL part of the curve, you can just get by with the Spare Air.


Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but the pony is emergency backup. It should not be used as part of the planned gas consumption - if it is, then it is not redundant, it is needed. If you need extra air (or whatever) for a planned deco, it should be carried in its own tank, or slung on a line from the surface (since this is a solo diving forum, then let's stick with "carried in its own tank"). In an emergency OOA situation, the pony, or other emergency gas, would then be used to get you back to your deco stop and then you would switch to the deco mix.

By the way, yours is the first report I have heard of anyone actually TESTING a spare air to see what its capability actually is - I like that approach.

Peter

But then,
 
Anyone who passed 9th grade Algebra should be able to figure out that a Spare Air is a completely useless piece of gear for SCUBA.

To put this into perspective, 3cft is 115 psi in an Al80. How long do you think that would last you in an emergency?
 
stingray1:
How much is your life worth to you? The benefits of having it there far outceeds the cost of the tank, reg, and 1st stage. I've never had to use mine either and hope that I never do but, I know it's there and I know it works. I do regularly test it and sometimes suck it down in shallow water just to get fresh air put back in it. I fully agree with DEEPLOU, Murphys law affects everyone not just the other guy or gal. I guess though that the important thing here is not what kind of extra air that you take with you but, that you do take some kind of air with you. Even if I don't agree with it and won't agree with it. Experience is the teacher, remember that and dive safely.

Norman
The Law is after you.saildivers
 
stingray1:
How much is your life worth to you? The benefits of having it there far outceeds the cost of the tank, reg, and 1st stage. I've never had to use mine either and hope that I never do but, I know it's there and I know it works. I do regularly test it and sometimes suck it down in shallow water just to get fresh air put back in it. I fully agree with DEEPLOU, Murphys law affects everyone not just the other guy or gal. I guess though that the important thing here is not what kind of extra air that you take with you but, that you do take some kind of air with you. Even if I don't agree with it and won't agree with it. Experience is the teacher, remember that and dive safely.

Norman
Hey- I definately agree Stingray.Murphy's law happens=Sh*# happens=the longer you dive, the more likely a strange event is going to happen to you underwater=if you disagree you are not as smart as you think you are=the vast power of nature and the sea can smash us like an ant if we are in the wrong place at the wrong time.I love and respect the ocean,but as a sailor and solo diver for 35 yrs with more than 4000 dives(fewer than 400 with a dive master with me )-I am constantly trying to dive safer.Although I now most often dive with my wife and buddy because she's a highly skilled diver and totally gung ho and ready to go any time,I"m still out there solo at times;because we dive from our sailboat in isolated regions -sometimes she's cold,I need to work on the anchor,or I'm just exploring or catching dinner.In regards to pony bottles ,my wife and I both decided to get pony-30's after an incident 1yr ago-occurring on a dive on a sea mount with a 7 knot upwelling current , 20 miles at sea from Rakiraki,Vauna Levu.While diving with my wife as my buddy, & my very good friend Dan Grenier,of Crystal divers, who was leading the dive of approx 6 other divers. I'd classify this as an advanced dive-because of the current ,though it really wasnt that hard of a dive . At that point I'd made about 4000 dives-about 1/2 were advanced dives with tricky currents.My wife and I were to fly out about 28 hours later ,so we were making a more conservative dive than the rest of the group,planned ascending and making a long safety stop @ 1500 psi, and informed Dan of this prior to the dive,and Dan having dove with me before here and in Loma Loma and knowing my solo experiene-consented to this.The dive had gone as planned-down the anchor line thirty feet ( the stiiff upwelling cuurent would not allow you to ever make top of the seamount unless you were over weighted)it may have been more like 8-9 knots-we got to the bottom where the boat was anchored-found our selves some broken coral shards to pull ourselves out of the curerent into the lee of the seamount,and experienced a breathtakingly beautiful and pristine ecosystem.When our air gauge read 1500 psi we signaled Dan and started a slow ascent from about 75 ff (5 min. max at 95 ft )@ about 30 ft / min to the top of the sea mount@ 30 ft,where the 7-8 knot current was starirng us right in the face with 40 ft of pulling ourselves across coral rubble to the anchor line and ascend it to 15-20 ft a safety stop,and return to the boat to enjoy the rest of our Anniversary-No Problemo,eh?Well-remember Murphys' law............I was about 10 feet in front of my wife advancing along the bottom,when I inhaled and-I was shocked to be sucking hard without warning-(I checked my air guage- 0 psi)-at the rate I breathe I estimated at worst-I should have had 1300-1350 psi left-but some thing catastophic happened to my first stage(There was no sign of free flow from my mouth piece).Still-I was cool -no problem,right?-just drift back and buddy breathe with my wife ( we practice all the time).which I did -though she was curious why I'd suddenly run out of air-but we calmly started buddy breathing , hanging on to the bottom against the current simultaneously.Since I'm the strongest ,I thought I should crawl across the bottom to the anchor line-30 ft away now,,my wife ride my back and we'll buddy breathe,-No Problemo,eh? Well, as I'm trying to figure out how to comminicate this to her(i did have a slate and pencil),the piece of coral I'm anchoring us to the bottom breaks off(as I"m taking a breath with reg in my mouth with the other hand) and the strong upwelling current immediately starts pulling us backwards and upwards.Now I'm thinking -this isn't cool-but I'LL just grab a different chunk of coral-and I did-but wasn't attached to the bottom.I tried again-but-nothing but broken coral that I could reach.Now I can't reach the bottom with my hands-I'm thinking -this now not so cool -bends-embolism- breathe-we are spinninging inthe current because I'm twice able to grab a coral head wth my fin-but the current drags us off.I see one last chance as we are spinning around from my fin contacts and effort to reach these coral heads (which is making buddy breathing a little more difficult,us a little dizzy,and the whole incident feel more out of control-bear in mind we were just buddy breathing comfortably on the botom with all the confidence in the world that we'd be fine just a few seconds ago)-as a taller coral head was right in our path and it looks like I could snag it with my fin to stop our rapid, out of contol ascent from the current.In any case Luckily I snaggged the coral head with my fin.Now I'm thinking No Problem-we'll do a 5-7 min safety stop.,just in case we shook up a few nitrogen bubbles (Now at about 20 ft)then ascend in the current and signal the boat-every thing will be fine.....But remember Murphy's law! Well, then my fin came off before I could secure us to the coral head-and up we went -nothing left to prevent a rapid ascent in that currrent -flaring etc -ina few seconds we surfaced ,thinking-Bends?-for the fiirst time in our lives.The boat saw us and since we felt ok and the other divers were coming up that anchor line soon (literally their liveline)we drifted down current(Dan Genier drifted with us till they picked up the other divers.)To make along story short-My wife started getting symptoms of left brain Bends with right shouder pain,loss of strength and sensation in her right arm,ataxia,& confusion.Dan Grenier immediately got oxygen started,linked with other boats to arrange communications(since we were so far out at sea)Raced back to shore.personally carried her about 500 yds through a low tide and along the beach to another transfer point-twhere he took another boat to the helicopter he arranged her and I to fly to the recompression chamber to Suva where ,thankfully J.Cousteau had donated his peronal chamber from the "Calypso" (note-some things do go right -the nearest chamber is in Australilia)-2 treatments cured her-that is till we tried to fly home 2 wks later.At 1500 ft on the plane, she got the exact same symptoms again-requiring the chamber 3 more times under the excellent care of Dr, Alii - and 4 more weeks in Fiji before she could fly home(we had considered Fiji our 2nd home already). She has totally recovered and is diving again..........Lessons learned. (1)Murphpy's law has a corrollary-get smarter each time you go diving , and learn as much as you can or you will be a DAN statistic that others may learn from (2) If I had a redundant air source such as the 30 cu-ft pony bottle we both carry now,this incident would never have happened. I feel horible that my wife helped me by sharing her air and then she got bent-By the grace of God I didn't have any problem.Which brings me to (3)Its possibie that if I had just surfaced (if I were alone or with my wife) I never would have gotten the bends-I breathe slower than my wife and weigh twice as much-or at worst I would have paid the price for my problem and not her -In any case we all have to be more self reilant.Teamwork is a must and most of all we have to be vigilant not to put our buddy in danger-yet as I write this, I did not think I was putting her in danger=but then shi# started happening,as it often does,in in succession,till a major incident occurs. (4) Be humble-share your mistakes-esp solo divers. (5) Learn from others mistakes.(6) My very good friend Dan Griener also did solo diving-He is the best diver I have ever met in my live-bar none. Unfortunately as many of you already know,he and a studet instructor have been lost at sea since Aug 31 2004 off Viti Levu ,Fiji-though with his US Marine diving skills and survival skills, he may have survived the drift to Islands 70 miles away. I am one of many helping keep the search alive in the US by fund raising(the search is being run almost completly by faimly and friends now who are out of funds,boats,planes,etc). Get backto me if you can help out,or look up the extensive postings on this topic on scubaboard;Austrailia and the Pacific,Dan Genier and Danielle Gibbons lost at sea........Finally,If Murphy's Law can catch an accomplished diver like Dan ,watch out-the LAW is after you.Keep getting smarter and more humble.Also if you can help out Dan and Daielle Rescue fund in any way (see my postings on scubaboard related to him).Thanks so humbly from my wife and I ,both families, and all thier friends.Safe diving and Aloha.,,Russ England MD saildivers@hotmail,com
 
Dude, no offense, I'm sure you're story is true and all - but take my advice and edit out this junk about 8 or 9 knots - trust me, you are embarrasing yourself. You are off by whole magnitudes. This is the equivalent as if I were to tell you I was driving my car 1,000mph.
 
Breaking coral heads in 7,8-9knots of current? Poor corals. 7,8-9 knots of current is very fast. You can actually stop your drifting with the fins? You can actually did all those activities described at 9 knots of current?! WOW! I am impressed!
 
RichLockyer:
Okay... so now you want to make a safe ascent. From 90ft, at 33fpm, that means that you have 3 minutes to make the surface, ignoring the safety stop.
90ft to the surface is an average depth of 45ft. That's a pressure of 2.36 ATA. Assuming that your SAC is going to rise to 1.0 CFM (it could go as high as 2.0 if you are really spooked), then you are going to burn 2.36 (SAC) * 3 (ascent time) = 7.08 cubic feet of air for that ascent.

I travel frequently to Cozumel. A pony is a lot to lug along. Spare Air very easy to pack/carry. I cruise and take pics in depth range roughly 70ft to 20ft. Usually find myself more than a "buddy" distance from the group (note - I do not abandon buddy - get pre- agreement from DM that I'll be near group, but essentially diving "no buddy"). I can CESA OK from 30ft, but waht's wrong with having 6cfm handily available for help rather than no pony at all? And what if that last exhale was it? Could I CESA after a full exhale from 30ft at anything like a controlled ascent? I doubt it (note to self: see how long I could last after an exhale).
The SA holster works well, lanyard prevents drop, etc. For the size and convenience, I think it's worth having vs having nothing.
Not looking for argument, but can't SA be considered a reasonable gap filler between full pony option and nothing?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom