"Spare Air" - Experience in its use

[scubaseeker]

Thanks 'Scared Silly' I'm headed more and more toward getting a proper sized pony, and in the meantime treat the 'Spare Air' as getting to a nearby Buddy fast, where in a crisis situation, I dive with a transient buddy, that wonders off from me....

I'm also thinking I might find another expat who is also concerned about having a safe buddy too, as this is a crucial issue for me too.

 

[Walter]

Does anyone recall those old safety valves on the tanks before SPG-supposedly you pulled or pushed the lever and had 500 psi in reserve? I have one on an old steel 72 (that I need to disable). That might be more useful for your videographer friend.

They are called J valves. Why would you want to disable it? If you don't want to use a J valve, simply leave it in the down position. If you aren't happy with that, buy a K valve. A J valve that's been disabled would be dangerous for anyone wanting to use the reserve if they weren't aware it had been ruined.

 

[rstofer]

On my J valve setup, if the J knob is up, the SPG will fluctuate as I breathe from the reg. When it is in the down position there is no fluctuation.

So, it's pretty easy to tell what position the knob is in and whether the J feature is working. I have yet to run the tank down far enough to actually test the function but I plan to do it in the near future.

I bought several J valves with ports for SPGs. For double hose diving, I find that a better solution than the banjo fitting between the reg and valve.

Richard

 

[OldNSalty]

Thanks for the 411 Walter on the J valve. Honestly, I haven't done anything with that tank in years so the valve should still work. I have even debated selling it...or selling my 2 al 80's and buying another steel 72...

 

[TGreene]

Let me begin by stating that I'm a new diver who was just certified at the end of March. I also have a medical condition that *could* cause me to suck a tank dry very quickly if I have a seizure while diving. Additionally, while I certainly know and more importantly accept the risks, I greatly prefer to solo dive and have my sights set on cave diving.

I have said from day-1 that I would add a 19cf Pony to the mix as soon as I was able to afford the extra money to do so, and last week I did. I use a 'Pony Tamer' side-mount and have the 19cf mounterd inverse on my left. After diving for 3 days with it this past weekend, I can't tell it's even there once I'm in the water. I have a 360* swivel connected to my Octo which is on the Pony, so that negates the issues on a tank on my left. Against the advice of my LDS owners and the DM's on the trip this past weekend, I charged the line and then TURNED OFF the Pony, since it would be so easy to simply reach around and turn the cylinder back on should it ever be needed. I also spent time practicing being able to remove the Pony by releasing the locking-pin and lifting the tank from the hinge-pin to be able to hand it over to another diver in an emergency situation. It wasn't the easiest thing to do (would be a lot easier for someone else to remove it from me), but it was absolutely doable and I did it a number of times!

At one point while diving a small wreck at 24', I got slightly hung up when entering a doorway and aparently that simple motion turned my AL80 valve nearly off... All of a sudden I was sucking hard at the end of each breath, and my SPG was bouncing as it had to recharge after being depleated. Just as I was getting ready to switch over to my Pony, I decided to reach overhead and check my AL80 valve and sure enough I discoovered what had happened. This "mishap" got my buddy and I to thinking.

1. Whether or not I havd a Pony with me, I reallize that should my air ever be compromised in any situation that would potentially place me in an OOA, I can always close the main valve and just crack it enough to ration what's left.
2. Never panic... ever! While I knew that something was obviously wrong, I wasn't the slightest bit concerned because not only did I have a 19cf buddy on my back, but my real live buddy was only a few feet away... In fact, he was the one that discovered my SPG was suddenly bouncing while he was busy untangling my legs from wires and rope that I got into when swimming through the wreck.

Once everything was back to normal and we were back on the dive boat, we joked about the situation because I had a ton of air left which is absolutely not the norm for me. We also discussd this openly because we were tagging along on a OW Cert trip and we thought this all made a great topic of conversation with the students.

At the very end of the day we did one last play dive after the students were certified, and rather than strapping on a full AL80 for a 20 minute dive at 10-30 feet, I just grabbed my 19cf Pony and rigged it up... The LDS owner was like, "Ummm Tim, I think you forgot something!" so I turned around to show that I was diving the Pony and he busted out laughing. He said he's never seen that done before, but that it made absolute perfect sense for the planned dive and the amount of air that I estimated that I would need. I asked if he was okay with it being his boat and all, and he said absolutely!

Now, as for the 'Spare-Air' systems, this very same LDS owner told me that he had a good customer want to order one, and when he tried talking this guy out of one, he said it's for his young daughter. The rationale was that there is no way that very young girl could control an adult, so in an OOA situation with someone else, she could simply hand over the 'Spare-Air', point up, and begin ascending while keeping a very close watch over her buddy. -- This particular scenario made perfect sense to me and just about everyone else that he was relating this story to.

I also know several extreme kayakers that carry a 'Spare-Air' in the cockpits of their boats, because a pin can certainly kill you if you can't cut yourself out of your boat in time... The few extra breaths available can be the difference between life and death.

-Tim

 

[WD8CDH]

Hi Tim,

Good choice on getting a reasonably sized pony.

I wouldn't suggest closing your main valve to just a crack in an OOA (or any reasonable situation). That's one extra step and waste of valuable time that gains you no added safety at all.

Spare-Air for kayakers....very good use.

 

[Roko]

Let me begin by stating that I'm a new diver who was just certified at the end of March. I also have a medical condition that *could* cause me to suck a tank dry very quickly if I have a seizure while diving. Additionally, while I certainly know and more importantly accept the risks, I greatly prefer to solo dive and have my sights set on cave diving.

Just out of curiosity, while diving solo how do you intend to keep the reg in your mouth if you have a seizure? (edit: though I suppose there are different types of seizures. I'm not up to speed on the condition.. No pressing need to reply and hijack this thread, a bit of searching is yielding answers to satisfy my curiosity.)

On the spare air topic... I sling a 40 if I'm going below 60 ft in cold water, though the biggest reasoning for that is to practice with deploying a sling, as I plan to get into tech/deco in the future where this bottle will be converted to a deco bottle. All dives without the AL40, I know my spare air is on my dive buddy's back, and her spare air is on my back.. sling or no sling bottle we stay close and keep an eye on each other.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

Now, as for the 'Spare-Air' systems, this very same LDS owner told me that he had a good customer want to order one, and when he tried talking this guy out of one, he said it's for his young daughter. The rationale was that there is no way that very young girl could control an adult, so in an OOA situation with someone else, she could simply hand over the 'Spare-Air', point up, and begin ascending while keeping a very close watch over her buddy. -- This particular scenario made perfect sense to me and just about everyone else that he was relating this story to.

So it makes sense for a "very young girl" to be left at depth as her buddy makes a run to the surface on a toy bottle of air?

I would think it makes for sense for her to always dive with 2 adults and in case one adult needs assistance the other renders it and she safely ascends WITH both of the adults.

A buddy who can't render assistance isn't a buddy underwater.

I also know several extreme kayakers that carry a 'Spare-Air' in the cockpits of their boats, because a pin can certainly kill you if you can't cut yourself out of your boat in time... The few extra breaths available can be the difference between life and death.

This is more along the lines of the original intent of Spare-Air, at surface short use for emergency.

 

[halocline]

Let me begin by stating that I'm a new diver who was just certified at the end of March. I also have a medical condition that *could* cause me to suck a tank dry very quickly if I have a seizure while diving.....


At one point while diving a small wreck at 24', I got slightly hung up when entering a doorway and aparently that simple motion turned my AL80 valve nearly off... All of a sudden I was sucking hard at the end of each breath, and my SPG was bouncing as it had to recharge after being depleated.


-Tim

Not to nit-pick, but if you're a new diver (your words) without overhead training and recreational dive gear, what are doing entering a wreck that's tight enough to roll off your valve? And a right hand valve at that!

While using a pony is not in and of itself dangerous, your comments lead me to strongly believe that you are not diving safely, and expecting the pony to bail you out. While it's your life and obviously I've never seen you dive, this appears to me to be a pretty questionable approach.

 

[halocline]

Thanks 'Scared Silly' I'm headed more and more toward getting a proper sized pony, and in the meantime treat the 'Spare Air' as getting to a nearby Buddy fast, where in a crisis situation, I dive with a transient buddy, that wonders off from me....

I'm also thinking I might find another expat who is also concerned about having a safe buddy too, as this is a crucial issue for me too.

No offense, but if you read this thread carefully and consider the arguments, you would "treat the 'Spare Air'" as a wall ornament only. Or maybe you could rig up an air horn to it, it would make a nice blast at a football game.

There is simply no scuba diving scenario in which spare air is a good idea.