"Spare Air" - Experience in its use

[TGreene]

First off, this thread has gotten about as far off the original topic as it ever could and at this point is really only missing circus midget porn!

- HOWEVER -

In regards to my seizures, they are so miniscule that they don't actually even register with an EEG or any of the other routine seizure and Epilepsy tests. I also had one during a CT scan, and nothing abnormal showed up, so while my doctors and I do know they are in fact there, they are simply so small that they aren't considered an issue. I am not medicated, I have never had my drivers license revoked, and aside from the issues that I have stated previously in this and other threads here on SB about this subject, there are no other issues to be concerned with.

I had a VERY long discussion with the dive shop about this, because the owner initially took the same approach that the majority of you guys have which was to say , "Whoa, there aint no way in hell I'm allowing you to dive!" -- You see, his daughter-in-law suffers from 'typical' seizures which is what we see on TV, so that's all he knew. After a very lengthy discussion the day of my final exam, he allowed me to take the test and I have since dove with them several times and we're currently discussing me taking AOW, EAN and additional classs as soon as I can swing it financially. To be honest, canceled my pool sessions quite a few times before I finally got them done, because I had what I considered to be a bad series of seizures and just didn't want to be in the water during that period, and the LDS Owner/Instructor was happy that I had the foresight to call the shots in that regard. They have since used my example as an opportunity to further educate themselves on this issue.

FWIW: I travel all over on my motorcycle, putting just under 20k miles on my bike in the past year. I can assure you all that THAT is far more dangerous with my condition than diving is, and just as with my dive partners, my biker buddies are all fully aware of my medical condition as well. The reason that they need to be, is because I typically always lead, but if I have a seizure then I greatly prefer to drop back so that I can focus intently on the bike in front of me if any Vertigo should happen to kick in... If it does, then I am no longer able to feel my bike under me, and feel as if I'm weightless and free-floating (fine in water, but not on a motorcycle). If and/or when this happens, I need to do what I have to do. Only once have I ever felt the need to have to stop and take a break, but that specific episode was started as the result of someone elses' foolishness that created a very scarry situation that then snowballed from there.

I too would love to know what DAN has to say about this, but I also have better things to do than to go on a rabbit chase right now. A friend suggested to me that I contact the DAN/Duke Dive Center to volunteer to be in a chamber study, and it sounds like a fantastic idea to me. When my schedule permits, I absolutely will be contacting them.

-Tim

 

[GP21]

Zeagle Razor Reg. & 6 ct Bottle System, Have You Used It, Any Comments??

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Zeagle Razor Reg. & 6 ct Bottle System, Have You Used It, Any Comments??

Yes. I just tested a friends the other day (Saturday, I believe). My initial impressions after one short use are;
1. It was a sinky little bugger. It was attached the side of my backplate and had the nasty tendency to want to make me roll that direction.
2. I used it at 35fsw and breathed off of it for 4 minutes. That used 1200psi (start 3000psi-End 1800psi).
3. Not a bad system. Used within it's capabilities, with the proper training, and I think it could be a nice redundant system.

I'm going to try it a few more times at varying depths and see how it goes before I make a decision on whether or not to get one.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

Zeagle Razor Reg. & 6 ct Bottle System, Have You Used It, Any Comments??

I have not used this setup but I am a pony bottle user so I'll make general comments mostly at the small size.

Here is an experience from yesterday, lets just say I was stressed.

It was my first dive in current and took more effort than I was expecting.

I was doing Training dive #3 of PADI Wreck Diver Specialty.

My Back Gas was a LP Steel 120cuft with a good fill (2570 psi).

My Pony was an AL30 with a decent fill (2800psi).

The Max Depth was 70ft (the deck of the wreck).

While running my line outside the wreck (training exercise) the line got fouled in my reel (will replace the line with something thicker so it won't fit in there).

While trying to unfoul my line I saw my Back gas was down to 500psi so I informed my instructor, per our agreed-up plan I dropped my reel and headed in the direction she indicated to find the anchor line and ascend. We arrived at the bow of the wreck (had descended on the stern) only to have to turn around and swim the length of the wreck to get to the stern.

About 1/3 of the way to the stern I saw my air was not 300psi so I switched to my Pony.

I couldn't see the anchor line from the stern so another diver & I headed out in the direction of the anchor line (we should have hit it 30ish feet in front of the 40ft dive boat.

We were ascending as we swam towards it but never saw the anchor line.

We ended-up breaking surface right next to the boat about midship so the current had pushed us 50 or more ft in 2 minutes (so I guess that would make the current 3/10 mile per hour).

My pony had 1000psi on it when we got on the boat.

At 3000psi the pony carries 30cuft so each 100psi is about 1cuft. This means I used 18cuft of air from my pony bottle.

So you tell me, would a 6cuft Pony have been good here?

Personally I'm happy with my 30cuft pony and wouldn't go with anything smaller.

Remember in general, if you ever HAVE TO USE your Pony Bottle then assume you're stressed because this means something didn't go as planned. Being stressed means a few things:

1) You'll consume your air supply faster.

2) You may need more time to work out a problem/solution.

3) ... Add yours here, 1 & 2 are enough on their own to justify a larger Pony Bottle.


Disclaimer: The few calculations here are from an amateur, my numbers may be meaningless so feel free to correct them if you must but remember that I don't claim to actually know what I'm doing when I calculated them.

 

[OldNSalty]

What were talking about again here on webMD? on yea-backup air. Yes, pony bottle is a great idea. Spare air is not going to help you (especially at 30 meters). I would suggested selling it and buying a larger pony.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

There's a lot of invaluable diving experience and great ideas here on Scubaboard. I've definitely learned a lot more than I would've with dive experience alone. But, in the end, you need to get out there and try some of these ideas yourself. Different people have different situations and different needs. I used a 6cf pony bottle for the first time in absolutely ideal conditions. And it was just to get comfortable with carrying it and operating it. The next times will be at deeper depths and breathed a lot harder. Like a lot of folks have said, you have to figure out what you want a pony to do and then get the size tank needed to do it. If I find out the 6cf isn't enough for what I want it to do, I'll move up to a 20cf and try again. If the 6cf pans out, then cool! I don't have carry anything bigger and bulkier than a 6cf. We'll see.

 

[DevonDiver]

There's a lot of invaluable diving experience and great ideas here on Scubaboard. I've definitely learned a lot more than I would've with dive experience alone. But, in the end, you need to get out there and try some of these ideas yourself.

Yep, gaining your own experience...and making up your own mind is invaluable.

...as long as you are safe.

Gaining some external insights and advice can save you money though.

 

[4sak3n]

Did someone say circus midget porn?!?

*ears perk up*

 

[WD8CDH]

Zeagle Razor Reg. & 6 ct Bottle System, Have You Used It, Any Comments??

Zeagle makes good stuff but I slightly prefer ther H2Odyssey systems. I think the regulators are slightly better and at least the 19CF is a better shape tank than the Zeagle 20CF tank for most users. But I would still lean toward a 30 or 40CF tank in the depths that we are talking about.

 

[MSilvia]

...if I were out of air, I’d rather have a Spare Air than nothing.

I have no pretense of being an expert, but I have certain intuitions which tell me some air is better than no air...

Yeah, and if I was out of food, I'd rather have a fist full of grubs than nothing, but that doesn't mean I'm going to choose to pack a lunchbox full of grubs whenever I think I might get hungry. I might rather have grubs than nothing, but I'd sure as heck prefer a sandwich... especially if the sandwich and the grubs were comparably priced.

The problem with "I'd rather have spare air than nothing" is that those aren't your only (or best) choices.

We had a LOT of threads about the spareair.
Most of us don't like them(for imo good reason)


BUT has anyone actualy USED one.
We allway's calculate (good thing) but used.

I haven't, for the same reason I haven't tried orally inflating a bicycle tire... I don't always need to experience failure first hand to know when something isn't adequate for the job.