"Spare Air" - Experience in its use

[Splash-X]

I haven't, for the same reason I haven't tried orally inflating a bicycle tire... I don't always need to experience failure first hand to know when something isn't adequate for the job.

But how would you know that orally inflating a bicycle tire isn't adequate if you yourself had not tried? Basing your opinion on the opinion of another without having tried it yourself is just circulating the same opinion.

The point here is you can't give an honest review or opinion of something if you yourself have not tried it.

You are more than welcome to an opinion on if someone should TRY to blow up a tire orally but you can't give a valid viewpoint on actually blowing up the tire if you didn't try.


I don't mean to target you at all, I just found the wording you used and the scenario to be the exact mentality that other people use when forming an opinion. I'm just trying to point out that not all opinions are based on facts and that most of the opinions are based on other peoples opinions.



If the basis for your view point is backed by facts then I agree with you but if your view point was merely throwing your thoughts out there then I would disagree. Again, not saying you specificly but I wanted to bring to light the difference between an opinion based on FACT and an opinion based on someone elses opinion.

 

[OldNSalty]

You are more than welcome to an opinion on if someone should TRY to blow up a tire orally but you can't give a valid viewpoint on actually blowing up the tire if you didn't try.

Actually you could. You could research the topic, find out how much air pressure is required at what rate, etc. Then compare that to how much an average person could do, etc and then compare all that to a tire pump and come up with a sound conclusion based on facts without ever having tried it yourself. Much like calculating how much air one might need at 30 meters and determining that the 3 cu ft the spare air offers isn't going to cut it- or you could also look at reviews of those systems and see where people have tried...and failed.

You don't need to experience everything...what is the quote "Experience is a hard school but a fool will learn from no other"

 

[Splash-X]

If the basis for your view point is backed by facts then ....

Actually you could. You could research the topic, find out how much air pressure is required at what rate, etc. Then compare that to how much an average person could do, etc and then compare all that to a tire pump and come up with a sound conclusion based on facts without ever having tried it yourself. Much like calculating how much air one might need at 30 meters and determining that the 3 cu ft the spare air offers isn't going to cut it- or you could also look at reviews of those systems and see where people have tried...and failed.

You don't need to experience everything...what is the quote "Experience is a hard school but a fool will learn from no other"

Like I said, if your opinion is based on FACT not someone elses opinion.........

 

[OldNSalty]

Oh-fair enough. Maybe I shouldn't read so fast.

 

[TGreene]

I haven't, for the same reason I haven't tried orally inflating a bicycle tire... I don't always need to experience failure first hand to know when something isn't adequate for the job.

I was gonna say that if you DO try it and are successful, then please gimmie a shout and that dinner and drinks would be on me, but then I saw your name a realized you're a dude...

-Tim

 

[MSilvia]

But how would you know that orally inflating a bicycle tire isn't adequate if you yourself had not tried? Basing your opinion on the opinion of another without having tried it yourself is just circulating the same opinion.

I'm not basing it on opinion one way or the other, I'm basing it on my ability to do relatively simple math. If you want to call it fact, so be it.

The point here is you can't give an honest review or opinion of something if you yourself have not tried it.

Tell me this, if I asked you to push a 3" diameter steel ball through a durable 2" diameter hole by hand, would you have to try it to know it wouldn't fit?

Calculating gas consumption at depth based on respiratory minute volume is a bit more complex to calculate, and somewhat less precise, but the result of the calculation is just as clear. You can pretty easily figure out how much gas you'll need for an ascent given whatever scenario you choose to plan for, and my calculations say that for my diving, a spare air isn't the right tool for the job... at least, not when there are safer and more versatile options for equal or less cost.

 

[Splash-X]

I'm not basing it on opinion one way or the other, I'm basing it on my ability to do relatively simple math.


Tell me this, if I asked you to push a 3" diameter ball through a 2" diameter hole, would you have to try it to know it wouldn't fit? Calculating gas consumption at depth based on respiratory minute volume is a bit more complex to calculate, and somewhat less precise, but the result of the calculation is just as clear.

And how did you know that the ball was 3 inches and the hole was 2 inches? Was that fact or a just what someone else told you who was told by someone else? If it is fact or has some merit at all, then fine.

The majority of the opinions are this board are all second hand taking the opinion of what other people say as their own.

If you have some logic, fact or other wise valid basis for your opinions (you used as in any "poster"), great otherwise the posts should come with some label or disclaimer that the person doesn't know what they are talking about

Again, not aimed at YOU directly, I'm just trying to convey what I'm getting at, know what I mean?

 

[DevonDiver]

Opinions are fine (i.e. "I do/don't like Spare Air").

However, what MSilvia was pointing out was that there exist specific calculations to determine a diver's gas requirements. These can be compared against the available gas (i.e. within the Spare Air).

In the case of Spare Air, the mathematics indicate that there is not sufficient gas to conduct an ascent from certain depths, with the average air consumption rate.

It doesn't matter what anyone's opinions are about Spare Air... the fact is that they do not contain sufficient air reserve to enable an emergency ascent, at the correct ascent speed, from deep recreational dives. Neither do they have sufficient gas to enable a safety stop or emergency decompression.

 

[MSilvia]

And how did you know that the ball was 3 inches and the hole was 2 inches? Was that fact or a just what someone else told you who was told by someone else? If it is fact or has some merit at all, then fine.

For the sake of argument, let's say I got those numbers from the manufacturer's specifications. That way, I'd know the size of the ball and hole the same way I'd know how much gas a Spare Air holds when filled to it's rated capacity.

The majority of the opinions are this board are all second hand taking the opinion of what other people say as their own.

There is certainly a lot of that here... you'll get no argument from me on that point. That said, free advice from an unvetted source is often worth what you pay for it.

 

[Splash-X]

However, what MSilvia was pointing out was that there exist specific calculations to determine a diver's gas requirements. These can be compared against the available gas (i.e. within the Spare Air).

In the case of Spare Air, the mathematics indicate that there is not sufficient gas to conduct an ascent from certain depths, with the average air consumption rate.

Devon,

I followed what he was getting at and my point was not to question him but rather to point out that the majority of the posts in this thread and many other high traffic threads use personal opinion (and second or third hand versions of those opinions) and not fact to come to a conclusion.

Like you said, to use "I do" or "I do not" as your opinion are fine. If we were talking cameras and you posted "I do not like camera xyz" and I used your opinion and posted "Camera XYZ sucks" solely based on your opinion and not based on experience or fact what good is my post? It is pretty much useless because I'm just using your opinion for the basis of my reasoning.


I don't think Spare Air is a viable solution to an OOA emergency. When asked about Spare Air, I don't suggest other divers use one from both personal experience and mathematical fact. I do tell them what Spare Air can do if asked, that being to provide just a series of breaths depending on your depth that you can use to get to the surface rapidly.

Do I tell people Spare Air is useless? Not directly. I steer them towards a safer option to handle an OOA emergency such as a pony bottle. It isn't my job to tell a diver how he or she should dive.

If someone does buy a Spare Air I will defiantly work with them to show them just how long it would last at a give depth.