spare air advice

[trucker girl]

I'd rather be floating on the surface bent and alive than floating at 40 feet not bent and not alive.

Alas, I fear your logic is doomed to be disregarded in favor of continuing the argument!

 

[Scuba-Jay]

I

Why not solve the gas management and buddy skills problems in the first place, instead of throwing additional equipment at it which maybe isn't going to help him anyway because of his inexperience and the extra task loading it will create?

John

This is a revolving argument that will never end...Of course gas management and buddy skills is the key, but the whole point of redundant air is that sometimes **** happens... In that case having extra gas can save your life, and spair air, alrhough limited in its usability, IS extra gas...

J

 

[texdiveguy]

........... .........you folks still beating this poor thread to death!!

 

[redacted]

If you just want to get to the surface, probably a CESA would do the trick. Its cheaper too, plus it weighs less.

Therein lies the catch. You can PROBABLY make it on a CESA. With a Spare Air, Almost all the doubt is taken away. You won't have to race to the surface. You will have a few more breaths as you ascend. You probably are not going to hold your ascent rate to 30 fpm or do much, if any rest stop. So you may be exposing yourself to a rapid ascent injury. But, you are ALMOST surely not going to drown. I say almost because there is always some risk that you or the spare air may not function as expected.

With a proper pony, even a small one, you don't plan on doing a CESA. You plan on doing an immediate, normal ascent including a normal rest stop. Thus you do not incur any additional risk of injury.

A Spare air is quite easy to travel with. A small pony rig is just a little bit more difficult for travel. A large (30) pony just about guarranties an excess baggage charge.

If you decide that having a backup will let you push your gas supply and take more risks, the potential benefits may be negated.

A spare air, or pony, should fit quite nicely next to your main tank.

 

[DepthCharge]

ok that was funny... but seriously, if you ned air than ou get to the surface first. than you get to a hospital for decomp. sickness. in all likelyhood you'll still be alive.

I do realize now that spare air is a POS. But in an emergency situation I would rther be with 1 mors CU FT than nothing. That much longer that I can ascend slow.

Here is a though... say you are at 50 ft deep and have the spare air POS. that will get you to your safety stop depth where you will have 30 seconds... N its not3 minutes but is it not better than nothing? I'm still going to look into a pony... Size weight will be a determining factor as I know myself if itscumbersome its will stay home. I only dive on vacations. This is why I like the tank mounted style as they will be out of your way. just a thought!

I feel that it's a false sense of security.
The problem here is panic.........most likely you will suck down the SpareAir before you get 10 ft off your depth. Unless I misunderstand you're looking for SAFETY. The Spare Air gives a false sense of that.
Get a decent size pony and go that route. Minimum I'd use would be a 13..and that is pushing it. Under 100ft I like a 19, over 100ft and it's a 30.

 

[ronbeau]

wow... I know a slow ascend is very important... However, when I dive on vacation with a group they almost never go that slow. Its true that they will ascend from the deepest dive slowly to a depth of about 45 feet and then once we see the boat and th dive master decides to ascend up. that last part I do not believe is done slow.

Even though every diver is responsible for his/her own safety the dive master should know better.

If anything the ascent rate should be slower closer to the surface since the greatest pressure differential is between 33 feet and the surface (pressure drops by 50% between 33 feet and the surface while the pressure drops by only 33% between 66 feet and 33 feet).

In fact, many agencies are now recommending a deep stop on dives deeper than 60 feet. For these dives they are recommending a stop for 1 minute at 50% of the maximum depth for one minute in addition to the normal safety stop.

 

[ronbeau]

I can see this... scary story BTW. 800 PSI wow. Now I remember burning 500 PSI in dive class simulting free flow. You forget thesethings.

I am afraid that if I do ascend at 30 ft./sec the boat might leave. I will sertainly be the last in the waterthat is for sure. Seriously what does one do? I like to be a safe diver. is this even possible when diving on vacation?

If the boat would even remotely consider leaving with a diver still in the water you should not even consider diving with that operator.

As far as being the last one out of the water, it is much better to be the last one out of the water and safe/healthy than out of the water earlier with DCS.

Your health and safety has to be paramount importance above all else. Everything else is secondary at that point.

 

[OceanicRocks]

CORALCRAZED... if you can make it through this thread without being totally turned off to SB due to the tone of posts in this AND ANY spare air thread...

Scubaboard is a GREAT place to meet dive buddies. I found SB last summer and doubled my dives from the previous 4 years. I just got back from a dive vacation (to Tobermory, Ontario, Canada- not exactly the tropics...) with a group of SBers.

There were a few insta-buddy seekers on the boat. I trusted every person in our group, though. We dove together over a weekend at a local quarry before our trip and on shore dives the day before our boat dives. It's good to dive with a group of trustworthy strangers!

My husband does not dive- which leaves me in the same situation you are in. But the great thing about SB is that you can feel people out BEFORE you dive with them. Plus, you can check up on people to make sure they aren't weirdos. Well, okay, that's a loose term. I'm a weirdo, but I'm a normal weirdo, so it's okay. I checked up on Notso_Ken and Steve_Dives with Ber Rabbit before I dove with them. I didn't know Ber at the time, but after reading her posts and realizing that she has a good reputation on this board, I decided she was probably a reputable source. Now I know that SHE is a weirdo (said with love).

That has nothing to do with the Spare Air argument, and I hope that you don't take any of the posts as slams on you. If you do a search, you'll see that ALL Spare Air threads go down the same ugly road. It's not you. Spare Air brings out the worst in posters...

I have been meaning to write and thank you.... not only for your concern butalso for your PM. I want you to know that you must take some with a grain of salt. I can see that I may have touched upon a sensitive subject. I did not mean to. I just want to be a safe diver. I do thank many including yourself who have opened my eyes to the reality of spare air. I am starting to see that you need moe like 14-16 cu at 90 feet to safely make it with some sort of safty stop. I hope that this topic raises some more awareness. I know it did for me.

for those who think I did not try and look up the topic first forget that I'm new on this board and still learning how to get around.

all I can say is again thank you all for being helpful in your own way. If it wasn't for my last trip to Jamaica I would not be thinking obout this... I see there is a hugedifference between one place and another. If anyone knows the beaches family all incl. resorts and has been to turks and caicos and Jamaica there is a huge noticable difference between the two as far as safety goes.

thanks again for your kind and thougtful thread. I appreciat it and if you are a weirdo than Iwonder what I would be considered as

 

[ronbeau]

I have rad some stuff about buddy breathing that there are high statistics that when this has been done that there are more double fatalities due to this. has anyone read this? Unfortunately my wife does not dive so my buddies on vacation are all strangers. The ultimate question is that you never know what a stranger will do at depth with only say 800 PSI in his tank. you really are on your own.

NWGratefulDiver (Bob Bailey) has put together an excellent paper titled "Understanding Gas Management". Bob is a member of ScubaBoard and a NAUI instructor.

You might want to send Bob a PM asking for a copy of the paper I mentioned. He put an awful lot of work into the paper but feels that the content is too important not to share it with others.

The paper is really easy to understand and I think you will find it extremely helpful.
Bob is a sterling example of the priceless resources available on ScubaBoard.

 

[NorthWoodsDiver]

Can we stop with the battle about Spare Air, everyone one here knows they are not worth the money and a pony is a much better idea.

BTW to all you anti pony users who say even a pony isn't worth the money and effort, you have no idea what kinda of divers you are talking to or what types of buddies those divers have. I had a scenario just a few days ago where one of the people in my group would have been otta air for the deco obligation and knowone had enough air to share really (except me) so I gave him my pony. I understand there are many details left out of that story and for good reason. There is no good reason not to carry a redundant air supply, even if you never plan to use it like me, someone else may need it.