Something's not right...

[eponym]

Thanks for the tips, guys!

Bryan

 

[dweeb]

i think i agree with you... not sure, though... all i learned in law
school was how to pretend to be awake while i napped through class

Your candor is refreshing.

so you never answered my question dweeb... was that a
DVP or a motorcyle you were talking about? cause i don't know of too many motorcycle riders that get confused about what "open water" means (i mean, they could, if they were also divers and happened to be thinking about diving while riding a motorcycle... that could happen i guess)

Your new vocabulary word for today is analogy

You really are having a hard time coming to grips with your error, aren't you? What are you afraid of? I'm not going to make fun of you.

 

[H2Andy]

*rumages through dive bag*

aha!!! here's a light!

(the better to find the dead horse lying around here somewhere)

question: why did the horse die?

answer: because it agreed with Dweeb that a cave dive is an open water dive

 

[scubafool]

Only 'cause I shot it once it agreed with him. Word researching & quoting PADI texts aside, around cave country, open water DOES NOT include overhead enviroments. Regards, your other brother Darrell.

 

[UFFDABOY]

I'm very disappointed with some of the members of the board, my wife (cal2632) posted very innocently in her excitement upon our return from Bermuda. With out knowing any of the facts other than those in her post it was automatically assumed that we were two morons who walked up to the first person we saw with a boat and asked them to take us out to a shipwreck.

Truth of the matter is we did quite a lot of research before we left for Bermuda ,about the dive operators and their staffs on Bermuda.

She also stated that our last tune up dive before we left was only 18ft (in a quarry with 3 ft viz), but that was not our only dive before this, we have been deeper than that by quite a bit, on several ocassions with the instructor who certified us.


So it might be a good idea to withhold comments when you don't know all the facts.

(dweeb is apparently a very apt name)

E-P Hoffman

 

[Wijbrandus]

UFFDABOY,

Hope you both had a great time.

 

[H2Andy]

With out knowing any of the facts other than those in her post it was automatically assumed that we were two morons who walked up to the first person we saw with a boat and asked them to take us out to a shipwreck.

this is precisely what bugs me about people like dweeb.

don't pay too much attention to him, UFFDABOY, he's
a very small minority on this board. we have very
knowledgeable and generous members on here, who don't
feel they have to put everyone down to feel better about
themselves.

 

[dweeb]

I'm very disappointed with some of the members of the board, my wife (cal2632) posted very innocently in her excitement upon our return from Bermuda. With out knowing any of the facts other than those in her post

Let's take a look at the facts in her post, then, and see what sort of conclusions they do or do not support.

As far as I can tell, she made 2 posts.

In the first post, she claimed to have 6 dives - OW + 2 post-cert. She further told us that her only non-supervised dive was to 18 ft. Then she spoke of an immediate increment to 72 ft. in a completely different environment.

So far, not exactly the epitomy of prudent choices.

THEN, she attributed her comfort with a dive which, BY HER OWN CLEAR ADMISSION, exceeded her limits, to the presence of supervision.

That is a textbook example of what is known as a "trust me" dive - exceeding your training and experience because you trust in dependency on another person. There are people all over this board, and elsewhere, who consider "trust me" dives the pinnacle of foolish risks. I'm just one of the few willing to tell someone straight out.

She then alluded to equipment inadequacies for the dive as well, which she dismissed because of excitement. Do I even need to comment on this point?

it was automatically assumed that we were two morons who walked up to the first person we saw with a boat and asked them to take us out to a shipwreck.

Truth of the matter is we did quite a lot of research before we left for Bermuda ,about the dive operators and their staffs on Bermuda.

Well, I SPECIFICALLY ASKED HER what basis she had for this trust, and she responded "I do know that our guide was a certified instructor" - she cited a credential.

Why don't you clear the air and tell us all about this research? What did you learn? I'll tell you there's almost NOTHING you can find out about a person on paper that would cause me to embark upon the level of dependency she spoke of. Furthermore, with only 5 dives, for of them supervised, I submit that you lacked the experience to make any evaluation adequate for the purposes of the degree of dependence she described.

By the way, when I want to imply that someone is a moron, I am very free with the term. Andy himself will tell you, I don't beat around the bush, so, unless you can show me where I used the term, I never even implied what you say.

Nothing in your post makes me any less certain that this was a foolish enterprise you embarked upon. However, that does not mean I think any ill of you or your wife. Odds are that your training to date encouraged a dependency approach to diving. Yeah, I'm harsh, but all I really want is for you to never, ever, do a "trust me" dive again, because last year, I had to watch people do CPR for 45 minutes on a dead man who had gone on a seemingly innocent "trust me" dive. I'd far rather read now that you're upset than read your obiturary in six months.

She also stated that our last tune up dive before we left was only 18ft (in a quarry with 3 ft viz), but that was not our only dive before this, we have been deeper than that by quite a bit, on several ocassions with the instructor who certified us. So it might be a good idea to withhold comments when you don't know all the facts.

You might do well to heed your own advice and actually READ your wife's post (http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=773155&postcount=25) before charging in. Notice that her opening line was "We've had only 2 dives post-certification" PLEASE tell me what is ambiguous about that statement. NOTE the word "only."

Now you offer a different, contradictory story. Methinks the gentleman protesteth overmuch. In any event, there's only one question - all those excursions to "quite a bit" more depth - would you have made them WITHOUT your instructor? More to the point. This dive to 72 feet, on your first boat (and thus, given your previous quarry experience, first ocean) dive, and, according to your wife's CLEAR statement, your second post-cert dive, would you have made it without supervision? If you can't honestly say yes, then nothing has changed - it's a "trust me" dive. You should never make a dive on the basis of supervision that you wouldn't do without supervision. (and yes, that means that, if you wouldn't feel comfortable making your first OW cert dive without the instructor, you haven't adequately completed your confined water training.)
By the way, it seems to me that if the corrected record you allude to really served to mitigate the dive in question, you would have detailed that record, rather than make intentionally vague references - the minumum standards for the 4 OW training dives could be interpreted as exceeding 18 ft. by quite a bit, on several occassions.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

That is a textbook example of what is known as a "trust me" dive - exceeding your training and experience because you trust in dependency on another person. There are people all over this board, and elsewhere, who consider "trust me" dives the pinnacle of foolish risks. I'm just one of the few willing to tell someone straight out.

.

It's a "trust-me" dive, no doubt.

Elvis is -in- the building...

 

[Xanthro]

I'm very disappointed with some of the members of the board, my wife (cal2632) posted very innocently in her excitement upon our return from Bermuda. With out knowing any of the facts other than those in her post it was automatically assumed that we were two morons who walked up to the first person we saw with a boat and asked them to take us out to a shipwreck.

Truth of the matter is we did quite a lot of research before we left for Bermuda ,about the dive operators and their staffs on Bermuda.

She also stated that our last tune up dive before we left was only 18ft (in a quarry with 3 ft viz), but that was not our only dive before this, we have been deeper than that by quite a bit, on several ocassions with the instructor who certified us.


So it might be a good idea to withhold comments when you don't know all the facts.

(dweeb is apparently a very apt name)

E-P Hoffman

Many people here are very against the concept of a trust me dive, because frankly, some of the DMs aren't worth trusting your life with.

I'm not as harsh on a trust me dive, because in the beginning, your dives really are trust me dives. You trust your instructor to determine whether that current is slow enough to dive in, you trust your instructor to keep you safe an the dive, because you are still learning the skills themselves.

I also think you by definition have trust me dives in certain advanced training. First wreck penetration is in a way a trust me dive. First time you use a jump line on a cave dive is a trust me dive.

Diving in general is geared toward trust me dives. That's what many of the dive destinations advocate. Trust us, we'll get you back.

Sadly, a small number do not make it back. It is safer to never do a trust me dive that you can avoid. You and your wife would have been safer had you built up a little bit more skill before that dive to 74 feet. However, in your class, you may have gone to 60 feet, you may have felt comfortable at 74 without a DM, but the added bonus of a DM made you more at ease and thus you enjoyed the dive more.

I'm not going to knock you for the decision. I'll just point out that you are always safer when you can take care of yourself underwater.

Xanthro