Solo tech diving article

[serambin]

I had several concerns about it.

Not at all. I've posted on a fairly wide range of threads in this forum. In this case I rebuted an article that sent my BS meter right off the scale. As I said before, I think the article itself as well as the authors web page is a troll.

That depends on the issues I suppose.

How did I bait any one? I rebuted specific points in a specific article which some one else posted. Who's baiting who? Some of those points were directly related to the nature and topograpgy of specific caves which I've seen with my own eyes while some other readers may not have. I also explained gas management for circuits and traverses and each divers navigational responsibility with regard to lines in a caves. I did so because the author and other posters made statements that I thought might be misleading to some one who wasn't cave trained. Beyopnd that, as far as I know one can disagree with me in any forum on the board.

Who did I try to silence. I certainly haven't ever tried to stop anyone from disagreeing with me in this forum or any other. Sometimes I get the impression that others are trying to silence me though.

I don't think the "forum" itself can corupt any one's judgement. Giving articles like this a one sided venue where they can't be argued doesn't seem to serve any purpose though unless the reason for the forums existance is to promote solo diving. One sided media can certainly misinform. The funny thing is that as of yet no one has voiced any disagreement with my statements regarding vortex, little river, gas management or line useage. They only seem bothered that I questioned the accuracy and validity of the article. Are we selling something here? I guess as long as I have posting privilages here I'll continue to say so when I disagree. With that I'll leave you with your own advice and that is if you silence every one who disagrees with you then you may find yourself with limited conversations.

This forum is for divers whose concerns are with making solo diving safer, exchanging ideas and experiences on and about solo diving and doing so without someone trying to call them a . . .a prevaricator . That is basically what you said wasn't it. Even if you thought that, it isn't conducive to having a rational discussion on solo vs buddy diving to say it.

So, here is my take solo on diving and why I choose to do it.

I do it about 25% of the time I dive. If everything isn't just peachy, with the wind blowing from the favored direction and the tea leaves promising a successful venture, I don't dive. I don't dive deep (mostly under 40') and I don't do repetitive dives. I don't go into or under anything. I don't run my tanks below 750 psi on resurfacing.

In short, I am very, very careful. Much more so than when I dive with a dive boat. I know that should not be true, but it is for me, and I'll bet it is for many other people.

So, why dive solo? Because I like it. When I dive with a buddy, most of the time I 'feel' responsible for our safety because I (usually) have more experience. One other point, Buddies I have met at the LDS often got their c-card on a Coz vacation, and with out sounding like the pro from Dover, they don't know jack and can't spell it either. They are an accident waiting to happen and an arm-chair Cousteau.

I find myself swimming slightly above and behind my 'buddy' which means I'm not really watching the view. My mind is constantly going over what could go wrong, and how could he or she could get into trouble, how much air do they have, when should we turn the dive? So my enjoyment level is less with a buddy than when I only have me to worry about. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if I could never dive solo again, I might well stop diving.

Once upon a time, a dive friend of mine who was an instructor, talked me into diving with a couple of certifying OW students. He had just completed their OW checkout dives and wanted me to buddy one of the guys on a 2-day trip in Destin on the Argonaut. We dove to 80' on an inverted radar dish (vintage WWII) to shoot trigger fish. I was looking in the hole where a panel had been removed and turned back to my waiting buddy to find the point of his 3 - band 50 something inch gun aimed at my mask at about 6" and with his safety OFF. This doesn't build confidence in ones buddy.

I truly feel more safe by myself than with many people I've had as a buddy. Now, when diving deeper than 40', yeah, I'll take a less experienced buddy provided I have some faith in their judgement, but I won't relax even a little bit.

I do have some very good dive buddies and look forward to our dives. But it's hard to put them together very often, so . . . I dive solo or worry.

Stan

 

[Scuba]

True... a buddy can provide that single lifeline that isn't there when you're incapacitated, and plug the hole left by "almost."
So, a good buddy is better than no buddy, and no buddy is better than a bad buddy.
I say again, "bad buddy" anecdotes are a red herring; solo diving has unique risks. All the bad buddy scenarios in the whole wide world cannot mitigate those solo diving risks. It may make you feel safer than diving with a buddy, but it still doesn't do anything to mitigate solo risks. If you aren't willing to accept that those risks are there you have no business diving solo.
Bad buddy stories are irrelevant.
Rick

Or close one or both lifelines that are there when not incapacitated by penetrating the hole beyond almost.

So?

I do agree with the other points in your post, I am not trying to argue which is safer in general, solo or buddy, because frankly, I don’t know the answer to that question. And if someone does, I certainly like to hear it, supported by solid evidence or at least very sound convincing arguments. It’s much easier to arrive at a sound probable conclusion when specifics are considered in the calculation, at least most pertinent ones. And then the conclusion is relative and all over the place. Is it stacked in one side? By how much? What may seem readily apparent is not always correct.

As you point out on another post. A self sufficient solo and buddy diver requires practically identical basic equipment. So the biggest difference would be consideration of an event’s risk of occurrence, and the changes brought on by the addition of another diver, both the positive and negative attributes, compared to solo. Add numerous and complex scenerios and probability calculations and the easiest route is probably accident analysis. But when you consider all the assumptions the data contains and all the missing data points, it's a tough challenge in my opinion.

Regarding the article, I see two positives about it.
One: That its name and context will give a chance for reflection to those who ardently promote the buddy system based solely or primarily on like or similar flawed arguments.
Two: That its discussion brings to the attention of others these flawed reasoning arguments. Whoever makes them for whatever reason.

In general, just because it’s the way its always been, because its the current norm, or because everyone does it, does not validate the premise that one type of diving is safer than another. In the Accidents forum there is a thread started yesterday from an inexperienced diver who had a close call solo diving. As I read it, it reads exactly like many others I've read where buddies are involved. Basic skills deficiencies appear to be the major safety hazard for divers, and the argument that two divers together make for a better unit is totally dependent on a relative perspective.

To those of you who find these types of discussion unbecoming this forum, I would ask for your understanding. Given today’s prevailing norms in diving: Where buddy diving is promoted to the masses without defining it, except in its vaguest terms. Where solo is widely shunted and stigmatized with flawed arguments. Where buddy separation accidents are attributed to being solo. Where divers think they are solo if they hide from their buddies, or dive in a group, or find themselves in a mostly one sided position relative another diver they are diving together with, etc. It is only normal that we will continue to encounter these topics here. We can either use it as an opportunity to educate others, or adopt the my-way or the highway attitude of others. You know my choice. I understand and respect a different choice, too. But as long as these issues don’t overwhelm the forum, I don’t really see it a major concern. Topics come and go in popularity.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So, why dive solo? Because I like it. When I dive with a buddy, most of the time I 'feel' responsible for our safety because I (usually) have more experience. One other point, Buddies I have met at the LDS often got their c-card on a Coz vacation, and with out sounding like the pro from Dover, they don't know jack and can't spell it either. They are an accident waiting to happen and an arm-chair Cousteau.

No doubt, buddies like this are a hit and miss proposition...mostly miss

I find myself swimming slightly above and behind my 'buddy' which means I'm not really watching the view. My mind is constantly going over what could go wrong, and how could he or she could get into trouble, how much air do they have, when should we turn the dive? So my enjoyment level is less with a buddy than when I only have me to worry about. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if I could never dive solo again, I might well stop diving.

Since you described this dive I'd like to point something out. "Above and behind" your buddy is about the worst place you could be. You're in his blind spot and he couldn't see you if he wanted to. Once in the water, one of the first things a diver must do when diving with others is to maintain a position where they can be aware of you without working too hard.

 

[nova]

HMMM. does seem like we're headed in the direction of of telling people their doing it wrong. perhaps you could tell us how to DO IT RIGHT. LOL that is were this thread is going.

maybe Mike could tell us how to SOLO the right way

 

[MikeFerrara]

HMMM. does seem like we're headed in the direction of of telling people their doing it wrong. perhaps you could tell us how to DO IT RIGHT. LOL that is were this thread is going.

maybe Mike could tell us how to SOLO the right way

Do you disagree with what I said?

 

[nova]

Do you disagree with what I said?

as far as being behind and above the buddy? yes I do disagree. If that diver has a speargun and the viz is poor. I'm above and behind them. If that diver is rototilling the silt out of the bottom? I'm above and behind with my light off
you shouldn't need to be a babysitter, But sometimes that is the way it is

as far as overhead solo goes . I've found that using the rule of thirds is still a good one . My thinking is , even if I don't need the gas for a buddy , I still could have a problem were I need to isolate my gas. If I have to isolate at the turn, then I should still have enough to make it out. This won't with siphons but overhead shipwrecks and low flow caves it does

 

[Rick Murchison]

does not validate the premise that one type of diving is safer than another.

try, try again...
I'll try one more time.
The original post in this thread tries to assign some inherent safety in solo diving by bashing buddies.
It is a classic fallacy. Sort of like saying "The grass is green, therefore the sky is blue."
"Bad buddy" stories and "bad buddy" conjecture don't have anything to do with the risks of solo diving.
This forum exists to discuss solo diving, not bad buddies.
Therefore, the original post is nothing but a troll - it purports to be a discussion of solo tech diving when in reality it is nothing more than a compendium of "why buddies are bad." It is a fallacious, sorry article that does nothing to promote safety in solo technical diving; it's arguments are specious and illogical.
Now, if anyone would like to discuss solo diving, or to discuss legitimate questions like "in what scenarios would you choose to dive solo; in what scenarios would you choose to take a buddy; in what scenarios would you want a team of three?" then that would be great. This is a place to discuss solo diving in particular, but it certainly isn't off limits to discuss when you'd choose to not go solo...
As for the general point about buddies the KISS version is this: A bad buddy can kill you; a good buddy can save you.
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

as far as overhead solo goes . I've found that using the rule of thirds is still a good one . My thinking is , even if I don't need the gas for a buddy , I still could have a problem were I need to isolate my gas. If I have to isolate at the turn, then I should still have enough to make it out. This won't with siphons but overhead shipwrecks and low flow caves it does

The rule of thirds (simply having twice as much gas as you should need to get out) is probably the most liberal gas plan that should be used in a real or virtual overhead environment. More gas gives you more time. Low flow caves are another situation where you might want to reserve more gas. In a high flow spring we can usually get out much faster than we got in and with less effort. that gives a built in safet because, in thoery, we reserved enough gas to get out at the same speed and RMV. Without the high flow to carry you out you don't have that built in safety. Also getting out on the same amount of gas we got in on is a best case. Most problems are likely to increase the gas we use and/or slow our pace.

Since we're talking about technical diving, the same considerations also need to be given to decompression gas.

In a solo situation, I'd rather not depend on being able to isolate. That's only because, though unlikely, there are manifold failure modes that could result in a total loss of gas. So, at least in an overhead (real or virtual) I'd prefer to sling a buddy bottle in addition to my doubles (the gas that is normally carried by a buddy). Independant doubles gets the same thing done but if I do that I'd rather just side mount them. In addition to being totally independant it gives the added advantage of being able to see all your valves and hoses. Your valves are also tucked away safely in your arm pits where some would say they belong in the first place. LOL. A sidemount configuration also lends itself well to the kind of cave environments where you almost have no choice but to go solo...very small and/or no vis caves.

 

[nova]

The rule of thirds (simply having twice as much gas as you should need to get out) is probably the most liberal gas plan that should be used in a real or virtual overhead environment. More gas gives you more time. Low flow caves are another situation where you might want to reserve more gas. In a high flow spring we can usually get out much faster than we got in and with less effort. that gives a built in safet because, in thoery, we reserved enough gas to get out at the same speed and RMV. Without the high flow to carry you out you don't have that built in safety. Also getting out on the same amount of gas we got in on is a best case. Most problems are likely to increase the gas we use and/or slow our pace.

Since we're talking about technical diving, the same considerations also need to be given to decompression gas.

In a solo situation, I'd rather not depend on being able to isolate. That's only because, though unlikely, there are manifold failure modes that could result in a total loss of gas. So, at least in an overhead (real or virtual) I'd prefer to sling a buddy bottle in addition to my doubles (the gas that is normally carried by a buddy). Independant doubles gets the same thing done but if I do that I'd rather just side mount them. In addition to being totally independant it gives the added advantage of being able to see all your valves and hoses. Your valves are also tucked away safely in your arm pits where some would say they belong in the first place. LOL. A sidemount configuration also lends itself well to the kind of cave environments where you almost have no choice but to go solo...very small and/or no vis caves.

after reading this twice I really CAN'T say I diasgree with one word of it.

small highjack, For years I've seen people building their own sidemount rigs, I even did it with my old stab jacket. what I've found that works so much better is this .

take your bp/w rig and add another plate to the tank side. al works for me but if I had an extra steel plate I would use it to take lead off the belt.

this allows me to rig all gear the same, lights , argon , reels you name it and it stays the same.

and talk about a low cost sidemount rig. I got the extra plate on E-bay

 

[serambin]

No doubt, buddies like this are a hit and miss proposition...mostly miss

Since you described this dive I'd like to point something out. "Above and behind" your buddy is about the worst place you could be. You're in his blind spot and he couldn't see you if he wanted to. Once in the water, one of the first things a diver must do when diving with others is to maintain a position where they can be aware of you without working too hard.

While diving with a 'typical' local diver (been diving diving for seven years and logged 26 dives) the most frequent rescue move I make is grabbing someone who losses buoyancy control, usually with out realising it, and while looking at their gauges. When I see one of these guys looking intently at their gauges, I get ready to grab a leg because you can bet your best reg, their fixing to start going up.

Rick, the post purports to be an article and clearly states its purpose is "anti-propaganda" i.e. propaganda. So let me ask you, have you seen more bashing of buddy diving or solo diving on SB? The DIR people get bashed and bash back, the buddy supporters bash and sometimes get bashed back, it's a dog eat dog ocean and I don't think a BBS is the place most of us come to for our primary education on diving. We do get information here , but most of us come also to hear the opinions of others. Opinions on gear, techniques and changing attitudes on how the sport is 'done'. Considering your objections to solo diving (from other posts) the only reason I can think of for your reading posts under this forum, is to bash the threads.

Stan