Solo tech diving article

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Nemrod:
Mie, I am not going to argue with you the relative safety of solo diving vs "team" diving whatever the heck that may be.

I didn't attempt to make any such arguement. What I did was dispute the arguement and the facts used in the article. Not the same thing.

This is the solo forum for discussing ideas in advancement of solo diving, not callling it stupid, dangerous, or arguing with the people who chooose to explore it etc.

I didn't call it stupid or dangerous. I do say that all the articles I've read that try to justify solo diving by using the "dangerous buddy" arguement stupid though. This one is definately one of the worst.
Your original post was a troll and this is a no troll area. If you don't dive solo and think it is dangerous why are you here? My last on this.

Again, my original post was to point out what appear to be GROSS inaccuracies in the posted article. I say appear because...who knows...the description could just be unclear and...some caves even change. However I've been in and out of vortex more times than any person should even have to do that dive and can't picture a place where the supposed event could happen. So, forgetting the point the author is trying to make, I find it hard to believe that the story he uses to make the point even happened the way it's presented.

I've also been in and out of Little River some and I don't believe that any one could get confused about which way is which at the top of the chimney. Again, forget the auothors point...the story itself sounds like BS.

How is that a troll? I think the article is a troll though. After checking out the guys web page (the diving part anyway), I think his whole site is a troll designed specifically to causs a fuss.

And again, who said that I think solo diving is "too dangerous" to do or that I don't or haven't? I sure didn't. Try to read what I wrote before calling me a troll because you seem to have missed every point that I tried to make. Maybe the fault is in my writting. Read Ricks post. He said it better and way shorter.


Safety is way over rated, live dangerous, die free. N[/QUOTE]
 
I am sorry Mike, sometimes I go off my Prozac and gernade. I have read many of your posts and you always give good thoughts and counsel, I should not have hammered on you.
Please, can the solo forum remain positive about solo diving. N
 
here are some points that some people seem to confuse,

your gear can fail in an overhead environment, but it can't get you lost like a buddy can. your gear can break, but it can't panic .
solo divers depend on their gear. Should the gear fail they depend on their training, almost all gear failure can be fixxed without danger to the diver. You just can't say that about a buddy.
 
nova:
here are some points that some people seem to confuse,

your gear can fail in an overhead environment, but it can't get you lost like a buddy can. your gear can break, but it can't panic .
solo divers depend on their gear. Should the gear fail they depend on their training, almost all gear failure can be fixxed without danger to the diver. You just can't say that about a buddy.

How can a buddy get you lost?
 
"How can a buddy get you lost?"

Uh, by going the wrong way? LOL. N
 
MikeFerrara:
How can a buddy get you lost?
have you read the accident analysis from mexico?
 
Good grief... flip the coin...
nova:
it can't get you lost like a buddy can.
Nor can it find the way out like a buddy can when you are hopelessly confused and he's not.
nova:
your gear can break, but it can't panic.
Nor can it see the stress in you and calm you down before you panic. A good buddy can.
nova:
solo divers depend on their gear. Should the gear fail they depend on their training, almost all gear failure can be fixxed without danger to the diver. You just can't say that about a buddy.
True... a buddy can provide that single lifeline that isn't there when you're incapacitated, and plug the hole left by "almost."
So, a good buddy is better than no buddy, and no buddy is better than a bad buddy.
I say again, "bad buddy" anecdotes are a red herring; solo diving has unique risks. All the bad buddy scenarios in the whole wide world cannot mitigate those solo diving risks. It may make you feel safer than diving with a buddy, but it still doesn't do anything to mitigate solo risks. If you aren't willing to accept that those risks are there you have no business diving solo.
Bad buddy stories are irrelevant.
Rick
 
nova:
have you read the accident analysis from mexico?

Of course I have if you mean the one where two teams for a total of something like nine divers went in, one team got lost and a couple of those didn't make it out. They did too many things wrong to even shake a stick at but how does a buddy cause that?

Each diver is responsible for navigation and gas management. As each diver goes along he/she must reference the cave. The line is only one aspect of navigation. Each diver should inspect the line condition, placement, tie-offs and any markers that may already be there. If at any time you are not satisfied with what you see, you fix it or turn the dive. Each diver is responsible for checking any markers the team places at intersections, jumps or gaps and in some cases it makes sense for each diver to place their own. We've done that in really low vis caves with lots of T's. That way if you do get seperated you know who has passed an intersection by who's markers are still there and don't have to worry about going back in to look for some one who may have already left.

These are cave diving 101 skills and you can't blame any one else when you screw it up. Well, you could try but I won't believe you. When mistakes are made because of intentional visual gaps, or unintentionally passing a gap because you blindly followed the diver ahead of you, it's no one's fault but your own! For this unaware diver, I doubt that solo diving is going to increase their chances. The diver who blindly follows is doing worse than a "trust me" dive which is something else that's warned against in entry level cave training.

You always have to think twice about sharing reels with another team. However, even if you're diving alone you have to consider that some one may remove you're reel leaving you to figure things out without it. Especially in some of the heavily dived caves we have today and the HUGE and rapid increase in the number of people packing a cave card.

In any case there are numerous things that can happen to complicate navigation. There are procedures for addressing them. Should you get off the line and lost from it, there are lost line procedures. At the same time you're using lost line procedures to try to save yourself, your buddy, if you have one, should be employing lost buddy procedures. It can kind of double your chances of getting back to the line. On the other hand if your buddy leaves, you are no worse off than if you had been alone to start with. If your buddy grabs you, blind folds you and drags you off the line intentionally leaving you in a silt out I guess you could blame him for getting you lost. I have to admit though I've never had another cave diver try something like that. LOL

I've been in several of these stuations personally and no one ever caused me to get lost. As an example, once my wife and I were going to follow another team on what they call the godzilla ciruit in MB. It was our first time there. What they didn't say was how fast they were going to go. Following them and on the line, my wife and I dropped through the floor into a room. I don't remember which room it was but I momentarily lost sight of the line dropping through the hole. We could still see the other divers and the temptation is to assume they are on the line a follow. What do you do? you stop, relocate the line, verify it's the correct line and then continue. To do otherwise is to willingly violate the requirement for a continueous line to the surface and no one is responsible for that but you. As it turned out my wife never lost sight of the line but I did. I wasn't satisfied that I had a continuous line to the surface and we stopped until I was. Again it's cave diving 101 stuff. The only risk to doing it right (no pun intended) is that you may fall behind the other team and who cares? If you would willingly violate such a basic principle you are in danger on any dive whether alone or with some one else.

The mexico accident is a good case for the study of lots of things but not the dangers of buddy diving, IMO.
 
And one more thing...
nova:
solo divers depend on their gear
You seem to be implying that there is some "higher level" of equipment - either in quality or quantity - inherent in the solo diving ethic that isn't there in buddy teams. I can't think of a single significant difference, off the top of my head, in how I would rig personal equipment for a solo vs a team dive (other than mission stuff like survey equipment or cameras or prestaged bottles & such). But as far as basic diving kit, if it isn't good enough to be solo, it isn't good enough to be with a team.
-- ah, just thought of one... no need for a long hose when solo --
Rick
 
nova:
have you read the accident analysis from mexico?

Have you read the sticky at the beginning of this forum?


ATTENTION - READ THIS FIRST

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Solo Diving is replete with it's own hazards. .....

This is a no-troll zone! The discussion is not to be centered around whether to do a solo dive, but in the techniques and strategies involved. Do not participate if you have already decided that solo diving is not for you! Thanks in advance.
 

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