Solo tech diving article

[Laughing Swordfish]

First of all I don't have much time right now but second that was the third stupidest article I ever read. Who wrote it? Dive solo all you want but argue that it;sd safer than with a competant buddy and you'll make an idiot out of yourself. Remember I said good buddy...don't dive with the bad ones. Let them die on a solo dive! Just a couple quick comments.

Isn't this supposed to be a flame free forum for solo divers?

 

[Robert Phillips]

Isn't this supposed to be a flame free forum for solo divers?

No, it's a TROLL free forum.

 

[Nemrod]

Well, I am with Swordfish, flame or troll this is the solo forum and it gets old arguing about how safe solo diving is. Some of us think it is as safe as diving with any buddy--good or bad----and at least as safe or reasonably so and I don't think the artical was "stupid" or such as that. Would not be calling someone's efforts stupid be a troll or a flame? No expert here but that is what I think. Show me real solid statistics to prove otherwise. If you say the buddy (that became a statistic) was not a "good" buddy then I can say the solo diver (who might have become a statistic) was not a good solo diver. There is no real proof buddy diving, buddy flying, buddy climbing, buddy hiking or buddy whatever is safer than solo and besides-------Safety is way over rated, live dangerous, die free ---while all the buddy divers are sucking each other's thumbs and calling themselves a "team". LOL. N

 

[Jim Ernst]

Well, I am with Swordfish, flame or troll this is the solo forum and it gets old arguing about how safe solo diving is. Some of us think it is as safe as diving with any buddy--good or bad----and at least as safe or reasonably so and I don't think the artical was "stupid" or such as that. Would not be calling someone's efforts stupid be a troll or a flame? No expert here but that is what I think. Show me real solid statistics to prove otherwise. If you say the buddy (that became a statistic) was not a "good" buddy then I can say the solo diver (who might have become a statistic) was not a good solo diver. There is no real proof buddy diving, buddy flying, buddy climbing, buddy hiking or buddy whatever is safer than solo and besides-------Safety is way over rated, live dangerous, die free ---while all the buddy divers are sucking each other's thumbs and calling themselves a "team". LOL. N

HOOOOORRRAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Scuba]

The aritcle appears to be titled:

Solo Cavediving: a little counter-propaganda.

(Or, Buddies can be Liabilities)

Taken in this context, thats the essence of the article.

It uses the same propaganda methods often used by ardent anti-solo divers. It compares doing something right, to doing something wrong, in an attempt to reach a fallacious general conclusion. Solo or buddy is safer than the other, take your pick.

The point made by MikeFerrara is well taken, that you can't justify one type of diving by comparing an example of good practice to another of bad practice. So he has strong feelings on the subject! And I certainly disagree with the general comment made: That arguing the point a good solo diver can be safer than a good buddy makes an idiot out of oneself. In certain cases it's just a fact. But I wouldn't go as far as trying to ban such comments in this forum on the basis of trolling or flaming. As long as a valid point is made, or a genuine expression of one beliefs, I rather err on the side of freedom of expression. As long as the individual is willing to debate the merits with an open mind, which he has, it's all good. It is those who refuse to change their beliefs in light of evidence to the contrary who don't belong here.

Many pro buddy/anti solo divers are quick to use these same methods of propaganda, using fallacious justifications for and against their positions, as well as attempt to suppress dissent with the same charges being made here. I would not like to see that happen here too. And besides, Nemrod would agree, all this "Can't we all just get along" is way over rated. No we can't! Do your thing! LOL

 

[MikeFerrara]

Gee, some one posted an article and I disputed both the facts and the logic in the article. Having been in some of those caves, I found the accounts as written hard to believe. I also took the time to explain how gas management is traditionally handled on a circuit or traverse because the author of the article doesn't seem to be clear on that and I thought a reader should be since it was part of a point the author was trying to make. There are so many other screwed up points in the article that addressing each one would just be to big a job. Flames? If calling BS when you see it a flame then maybe so. Trolls? I think the article is a troll. I didn't state any opinion on solo diving though I did state a pretty clear opinion of the article. if you don't want opinions to be expressed on an article it's probably best not to post it...and it is one of the very dumbest articles I've ever read.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, I am with Swordfish, flame or troll this is the solo forum and it gets old arguing about how safe solo diving is.

I agree. So why post articles that argue the point?

Some of us think it is as safe as diving with any buddy--good or bad----and at least as safe or reasonably so and I don't think the artical was "stupid" or such as that.

Diving isn't safe and niether is walking down the street. I don't dive because it's safe and if I decide to dive alone I don't need to argue that it's safe either. I would argue that I'm doing it because I want to and choose to except whatever risks there are. I still think the article is full of misinformation which I pointed out.

There is no real proof buddy diving, buddy flying, buddy climbing, buddy hiking or buddy whatever is safer than solo and besides

Really? On simple flights in simple planes it's comon to fly solo. As things get more complex a co-pilot is added. More complex yet and a navigator is added. I guess the reason is to avoid task overloading the pilot. Some one must think that's safer...like all the airlines on the face of the planet. You don't think there's evidence that a climb is safer if you're being belayed by another person? Gosh, I'll bet there is.

-------Safety is way over rated, live dangerous, die free ---while all the buddy divers are sucking each other's thumbs and calling themselves a "team". LOL. N

I agree that safety is over rated. Why do people keep trying to justify solo diving on the basis of safety? Diving shallow introduces less risk than deep, OW less than overheads, warm water less than cold, good vis less than bad. But, hey, I dive deep, cold overheads in lousy viz. I do it because I want to not because it's the safest place to dive. I don't have to justify it at all. I just do it.

You don't have to justify solo diving either. It's not illegal (in most places) and you can do it if you want. Oh, there might be some kiddie boats at the resorts that try to tell you how to dive and some private parks where they want to hold your hand but in the rest of the worlds waters you can do as you see fit.

Who are articles like that trying to convince? The kiddie boat oporators? If you're diving on a kiddie boat it stands to reason that you might be treated as one of the kiddies. Are they trying to sway the agencies like PADI? If one is still in a stage in their diving where they care what PADI thinks then maybe they're just not ready yet.

What is this forum for, to discuss solo diving or is it a place to sit around and pump each other up and convince each other?...LOL...it's safe enough....NO! it's safer than a bad buddy...NO! ITS SAFER THAN ANY BUDDY!!...ok team ready? Now lets go out there and take it to them! No I think the forum is to create a venue for the discussion of the "how to" of it. Understanding risk, deciding to accept it and discussing how to deal with it seems a valid goal. To sit around and try to convince each other that the risks don't exist seems dangerous. There are risks in team diving and there are risks in solo diving. Yet both are done and there are instances where one or the other is even called for.

Team diving has more failure points. It also has more resources with which to deal with problems or complex tasks. Solo diving places you with less resourses but argueably less failure points. Which is better would seem to depend on the team and the tasks at hand. The question has to be are the resources adequate for the tasks and risks at hand. If some one makes a blanket statement that a team is the only safe way I'd suggest that they try to get their team through a muddy Kentucky sump. At the same time, when the atatement is made that a buddy is a liability I have to point out that the first step in planning a buddy or team dive is to pick the buddy or assemble a team that's appropriate and prepared for the dive. Bad football teams loose. Bad dive teams fail. Still, I don't think that solo football is the answer. If you want to win you'll need a good football team. You have to compare apples to apples and I've never read one of these articles that did that. Never!

 

[Rick Murchison]

It uses the same propaganda methods often used by ardent anti-solo divers. It compares doing something right, to doing something wrong, in an attempt to reach a fallacious general conclusion.

Bingo!
"Bad Buddy" stories do nothing to change the unique risks of solo diving. Here we should be concentrating on mitigating those to the extent possible. Whining about bad buddies is BS.
I agree with Mike... stupid atricle.
Rick

 

[smokey braden]

mikeferrara,
thank you for your time in providing your contribution of information.

 

[Nemrod]

Mie, I am not going to argue with you the relative safety of solo diving vs "team" diving whatever the heck that may be. This is the solo forum for discussing ideas in advancement of solo diving, not callling it stupid, dangerous, or arguing with the people who chooose to explore it etc. Your original post was a troll and this is a no troll area. If you don't dive solo and think it is dangerous why are you here? My last on this.
Safety is way over rated, live dangerous, die free. N