Solo Kit setup: the required, redundant, optional, and hell-no items

[Boarderguy]

Absolutely INCORRECT!

Welcome to Scuba Board. Snacks and coffee are in the back. Please try not to interrupt others unless you BELIEVE your opinion is that much more important and correct.

Thanks, I didn't have the card in front of me and had to go off memory.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Absolutely INCORRECT!

Welcome to Scuba Board. Snacks and coffee are in the back. Please try not to interrupt others unless you BELIEVE your opinion is that much more important and correct.

But what if my opinion IS that more importenter and correcter?

Then what?

 

[Boarderguy]

But what if my opinion IS that more importenter and correcter?

Then what?

Then you must state so clearly and stand behind it 100%! Shout down everyone else because the louder you are, the more righter you are.

 

[happy-diver]

Not talking about snorkels, talking about exerting yourself surface swimming as opposed to diving under it

Did you know that all that diving gear we carry is not designed for the surface and when we push it along
half in half out we end up all exerted using more air on the dive than had we just immediately submerged

Everything I say is open to your interpretation, as the only person to convince yourself of its validity is you

Get with the programme subjectives

 

[bradlw]

Maybe you should ask SDI and the author of the manual.

I personally see no point in an "octopus" in addition to a second regulator on the redunant tank. In such case any addition to either is an additional potential failure point. As to the Air 2, it is a more complcated device than an inflator and in failure the inflator can be disconnected and the dive terminated using oral inflation if needed. My perspective is to take no more that is actually needed and an Air 2 and an octopus, either/or, is not needed with a fully redundant pony bottle rig. There is already a long thread in the Basic Forum about one particular diver's, for lack of any other description, overly complex rig, where does the slippery slope begin? For me, it begins the moment I add anything I do not need. And I do not create false narratives and hypotheticals to justify additional equipment that I do not need.

I like the Air 2 and my new tropical rig uses the DGX BCI, but not for intentional solo. That is not my intentional solo rig.

Again, you can discuss this with your solo instructor, SDI and the author of their manual for their perspectives. Ultimately, do what you think you need to do.

I was just about to post a question, then saw this post.
My question was how many folks carrying a redundant tank still bring an "octo" when solo diving?
or
Maybe a better question. Have any of you ever experienced or personally witnessed 1st hand a case where a second stage failed in some way so that the diver switched to their own "octo" as a back-up?

The only regulator problems I can remember were more to do with free-flowing 2nds.... and in those cases, switching to another wouldn't have helped.

So i agree with Nemrod. When I was recreational diving long before I got into tech, I used to treat every dive as a solo dive. This was in a time before solo certification was a thing. I started diving with a pony then. Later, when I started tech diving, it was various forms of redundant complete regulators....and no "safe-second" attached to any one of the first stages. With any of those, there was always the potential for sharing with another diver
and that always seemed like a better strategy for a "solo" mentality. Better redundancy for me while always maintaining one or more options for rescuing someone else.

The "octo" makes sense as a compromise solution for a basic OW set-up sure.... but it just seems like an unnecessary failure point in a solo or tech set-up.

 

[bradlw]

Oh, I meant to also comment about the Air-2
My very first rig that I bought during my OW class included a Scubapro Air-2.
Seemed like a good idea for redundancy and all... and this was a long time ago mind you, so maybe the newer versions are different...But I figured out pretty soon that it was neither a good LPI or a good "safe-second" and i ditched it.

 

[Wallowa]

Oh, I meant to also comment about the Air-2
My very first rig that I bought during my OW class included a Scubapro Air-2.
Seemed like a good idea for redundancy and all... and this was a long time ago mind you, so maybe the newer versions are different...But I figured out pretty soon that it was neither a good LPI or a good "safe-second" and i ditched it.

No octo when diving solo...agree just another failure point....have never had a regulator failure, sure it could happen but ways of dealing with that..

Little off topic ...but Air-2 spawned this digression.

May catch flak for this; currently the MO is to put the octo on right side of diver...not what I did, taught or would do...above all else the "rescuer" must remain operational and in control or both divers could die....having a potentially panicked diver on the right side of the rescuer gives the panicked diver access to the rescuer's regulator and air.....plus the now common 7 foot octo on right does not allow the rescuer to control the person out of air...controlling ascent or panic...first move when sharing air should be to grasp the diver out of air to control the transfer and to control the out of air diver...then place octo on cheek or in mouth of out of air diver as needed....then especially if deep, alternate inhalations with the diver on the octo to lessen chance of first stage freeze up...all of the above presupposes that the person donating air, rescuer, is competent and skilled in rescues and can control the out of air diver. Otherwise any air sharing may end in a double drowning...

Look only my experiences and currently I doubt that buddy breathing is even taught and that to be successful also requires skill and control. Over training and practice in open water is crucial for any skill set. We trained and practiced mask-off octo and buddy breathing in open ocean to assure we had it wired. Not for everyone, but it worked for us.

There are many ways to deal with an out of air situation whether diving solo or when donating air....whatever best works for the individual diver under the conditions presented is what should be used...if you need a 7 foot octo hose so be it....

To each their own.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Then you must state so clearly and stand behind it 100%! Shout down everyone else because the louder you are, the more righter you are.

 

[Nemrod]

I was just about to post a question, then saw this post.
My question was how many folks carrying a redundant tank still bring an "octo" when solo diving?
or
Maybe a better question. Have any of you ever experienced or personally witnessed 1st hand a case where a second stage failed in some way so that the diver switched to their own "octo" as a back-up?

The only regulator problems I can remember were more to do with free-flowing 2nds.... and in those cases, switching to another wouldn't have helped.

So i agree with Nemrod. When I was recreational diving long before I got into tech, I used to treat every dive as a solo dive. This was in a time before solo certification was a thing. I started diving with a pony then. Later, when I started tech diving, it was various forms of redundant complete regulators....and no "safe-second" attached to any one of the first stages. With any of those, there was always the potential for sharing with another diver
and that always seemed like a better strategy for a "solo" mentality. Better redundancy for me while always maintaining one or more options for rescuing someone else.

The "octo" makes sense as a compromise solution for a basic OW set-up sure.... but it just seems like an unnecessary failure point in a solo or tech set-up.

While diving with a loose buddy group in Jupiter, Fl my DH regulator flooded out and the powerful Venturi forced more than enough water into my lungs to cause laryngeal spasm and resulting double pneumonia. But, not going into all of that. I made it back to the surface more or less intact, blood streaming down my face (I told the crew I had bit my tongue) using a piece of junk XS pancake octopus. Which more or less itself disintegrated in use and was subsequently thrown in the trash. I did not throw the DH in the trash but came close, it was just too heavy and I was too sick to do so . So, yes, I switched from my primary to my octopus which did save my life.

It is still my opinion and that opinion is congruent with SDI that a "octopus" or secondary is not needed (for solo) and provides only potential for failure and is not sufficiently redundant for solo diving where true redundancy is provided by an auxiliary system or the use of manifolded doubles or ID (back or side). The liklihood of failure is low for that extra second stage so it is hardly a great sin and for those who do not have multiple or dedicated reg sets, who cares ---.

A BCI is probably not a good idea for the solo diver, though I currently use the DGX BCI for benign and tropical photo (buddy) diving. Not really solo diving as I am usually requested to have a buddy to be responsible for such as here:

 

[johndiver999]

No octo when diving solo...agree just another failure point....have never had a regulator failure, sure it could happen but ways of dealing with that..

Little off topic ...but Air-2 spawned this digression.

May catch flak for this; currently the MO is to put the octo on right side of diver...not what I did, taught or would do...above all else the "rescuer" must remain operational and in control or both divers could die....having a potentially panicked diver on the right side of the rescuer gives the panicked diver access to the rescuer's regulator and air.....plus the now common 7 foot octo on right does not allow the rescuer to control the person out of air...controlling ascent or panic...first move when sharing air should be to grasp the diver out of air to control the transfer and to control the out of air diver...then place octo on cheek or in mouth of out of air diver as needed....then especially if deep, alternate inhalations with the diver on the octo to lessen chance of first stage freeze up...all of the above presupposes that the person donating air, rescuer, is competent and skilled in rescues and can control the out of air diver. Otherwise any air sharing may end in a double drowning...

Look only my experiences and currently I doubt that buddy breathing is even taught and that to be successful also requires skill and control. Over training and practice in open water is crucial for any skill set. We trained and practiced mask-off octo and buddy breathing in open ocean to assure we had it wired. Not for everyone, but it worked for us.

There are many ways to deal with an out of air situation whether diving solo or when donating air....whatever best works for the individual diver under the conditions presented is what should be used...if you need a 7 foot octo hose so be it....

To each their own.

The first move should be to hand the victim a back up second stage (if possible) not grab and try to control the victim. The victim needs air ASAP, anything that delays that process should not be a priority.

Once the diver has taken the regulator, then it makes sense to grab them and take control physically. Man-handling an out of air diver, without first giving them air seems like a non-optimal protocol, since it could easily further their (impending) panic.

I am not sure I understand what the importance of positioning the victim to one side or the other, and I definitely fail to see how this could be predicted or controlled in an emergency.

I've been presented with an emergency air sharing situation (at considerable depth) at least four different times and it can be somewhat chaotic and scary because you don't know how the victim will react.