Snatching the primary... a real world poll

[Kim]

Interesting comments so far. I haven't voted as I've never been in an LOA/OOA situation. I have often wondered though wether the "an OOA diver will grab your reg in panic" statement was as true as many claim. In the first instance it would appear that true OOA situations are not so common, and that normally people don't panic and follow their training.

 

[SquattingRadishDM]

I have had 1 OOA and 1 LOA situation.
My LOA experience was when my buddies reg freeflowed at 100', he didn't signal OOA but I gave him my secondary reg as I new he wouldn't have had much air left after the freeflow. Then turned off his tank, he had done about 50 dives and had no problem.

The OOA, my buddy came up to me as we were ascended and looked calm but had wide eyes, signalled OOA, I glanced at his SPG and he had NOTHING, calmly I gave him my alternate and carried on the deco stop. My point is this guy had taken his last breath, wasn't experienced (20 dives) and didn't seem in a great rush to get a reg. Afterwards he said he was really scared, but even though, he didn't grab my reg in a desperate bid to get air. Maybe if he was paniced as opposed to just being very anxious he might have. But I think you will find the incidents of OOA divers grabbing peoples primary regs out of their mouth is very rare.

Its probably so widely discussed as cave and tech divers (as I'm sure u know already) analyse accidents and modify their procedures/techniques/equipment accordingly. It probably happened to one guy and spread by word of mouth amoungst the community and then got adopted by cert agencies like GUE.

 

[DandyDon]

This poll might have been organized a little better, perhaps - but the idea is there, and the results are interesting. Aside from my few LOA doantions and my personal OOA request, I also observed a newbie who was not qualified to be on the advanced boat, much less ascend alone, whose reg failed on ascent. Rare as that is, it happened. He swam to the next person on the ascent line and politely requested air; no panic.

I guess we should be prepared for the shock of having a diver grab our second stage from our mouths, but it doesn't seem to be as common as some preach, does it?

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Well..... I don't want this to become a debate in semantics. I'm honestly trying to see if "snatching" (as in "took" without warning) the primary is really the problem it's made out to be.

I'll give you that the wording could have been better but the people who responded so far seem to have understood the intention so at this point I don't think we need to reformulate it.

R..

I saw a reg snatch that resulted in a hose being ripped out of a reg, snapping the brass fitting.

 

[String]

From reading various other polls over the years my conclusion was divers tend to take what theyd been trained to take - ie if always trained on octopus they took that, if trained on long hose they took primary.

This tallies with the 2 incidents ive personally witnessed (but not been involved in).

 

[MikeFerrara]

I would agree that given the chance and the time that most will attempt to do as they were trained. If they were taught to go for an alternate then that's what they'll do.

There are other issues though...like bad vis. Problems often come in bunches so when the vis is low which diver are you looking at and where is the alternate? One diver wears it here and another wears it there and another has if hanging free. At the same time if you can find another diver it's a simple matter to find his primary because it's right in the middle of his head. If he has his backup under his chin he won't be inconvenienced by you taking his primary.

Do these things happen often? No, but it only takes ONCE. Sometimes a thing that works some of the time is worse than something that never works because you're fooled into thinking it works.

 

[grazie42]

My LOA situation turned OOA was a buddy of circumstance...

We were doing a nice, mellow naturedive where the plan was to turn around at ½ air or time (30 mins). So we´d be able to actually get back to the boat as opposed to surfacing "wherever" in the western sea which we both agreed to...

Anyway seeing my BOC cat-paddling around in his drysuit (told me before he´d never had to abort a dive early because of his airconsumtion) I got suspicious because after 25mins @ 60 feet he still hadnt signaled for us to turn so I showed him my p-gauge and asked to see his...when he showed me he had 1/3 of his tank left (we turned and ascended a bit at that point)...

when he had 50 BAR left I put my secondary in my mouth and tried to hand him my primary (longhose, had plenty of air). This prompted him to try to give me his octo (!)...anyway after some intense sign-signalling he got the idea but "politely declined" to take my offered reg. That he continued to do as his pressure dropped 40, 30, 20 , 10 and still polite but firm refusal to breath from my reg...

When he "suddenly" stopped getting air from his tank he was quick to grab and breath my offered reg though...

 

[Kim]

I would agree that given the chance and the time that most will attempt to do as they were trained. If they were taught to go for an alternate then that's what they'll do.

There are other issues though...like bad vis. Problems often come in bunches so when the vis is low which diver are you looking at and where is the alternate? One diver wears it here and another wears it there and another has if hanging free. At the same time if you can find another diver it's a simple matter to find his primary because it's right in the middle of his head. If he has his backup under his chin he won't be inconvenienced by you taking his primary.

Do these things happen often? No, but it only takes ONCE. Sometimes a thing that works some of the time is worse than something that never works because you're fooled into thinking it works.

Mike - with all due respect - is this something that you've actually seen happen?

 

[dkerr]

I went diving with a club a while back because a lack of dive buddies was a problem for me. I buddied up with someone on shore and we discussed dive plan and did buddy checks. Upon trying to decend, my buddy could not get under. After struggling for 10 min we decided to head back to shore to re-evaluate the weight sitution. Just then another diver came up to us asking if he could tag along. I asked te underweighted diver if he wanted an escort to shore (20 yards) and he said he was fine (there was also people on shore watching everyone). The new diver and I discussed our dive (navigation, air consumption) and started to decend.
I was following his lead. Unfortunately he was not the best navigator because he would take a bearing give a few fin strokes and then head completely off course for 10 fin strokes. He would then take his bearing again, show me his compass, and head off in the correct direction for 2 strokes and then deviate from course again. Aside from swiming in circles, everythinh was fine until about 15 min into the dive. He then stops, turns around and shows me his console again.
Now I figured that he was showing me his compass but apparently he was showing me his pressure guage. Before I knew it, he shoots to the surface (we were only at 18fsw). When I surfaced he told me he was out of air and he asked me to check his valve. It was barely on, so I turned it on and he was fine so we completed the dive.

 

[DennisW]

I've had a diver (not one in my group or even from my boat) snatch my primary. He was pretty much panicked and it took a few minutes to calm him down and then we ascended. I put him on our boat and let them find his boat for him. I finished the dive.

I have also shared air with Walter and with Pete when I was getting low on air. Both dives were on the Duane. (Note to me after the second time: Always turn back at 1500 psi when you are below 90 ft.) The first time was on my first or second dive on the Duane a long time ago (Walter will know exactly which dive and exactly when it was. I'm at work and don't have access to my log book.). The second time was at Wreckmania 2. I could have probably made the safety stop and surfaced with air left on the second one, but it would have been tight. On the first instance, I believe I would have run out before I got to the surface.

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