Small incident, but wondering....

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

love2godeep:
I was near the bottom, but it sloped down and I could have gone quite a bit deeper.

The divemaster was supposed to be my instructor. (She had been on previous dives.) She also had the other four people to look after, and of course could not do much with me.

For the record, I did speak with the dive op; told them I had been promised a private instructor, and that the deep dive had not been anywhere near what PADI requires. First response: "What did you expect? That we would take you out all by yourself on the boat?"

argggh! But I explained that I expected to have a private dive instructor, with someone else to take out the rest of the divers.

They agreed to take me out again, no extra charge. And this time to do the deep dive properly.

Shall I go????

Uhmm....it sounds like you are a responsible diver taking charge of yourself while diving, That's good. Your behavior was good, and I think you did everything by the book: aborted the dive when you couldn't find the group, ascented slowly, did your safety stop and deployed your safety-sausage to be visible at the surface.

The DM has no reason to give you any heat: you were responsible and, in addition, you are a paying client. However I understand why the DM said what she said: she were stressed, she knew that she had screwed up and she knew that it was no thanks to her that you had a safe dive after all.

You might be able to do fine with the instructor for the deep-dive, however if I were you I'd probably prefer continuing my training with someone a little more responsible. However if the deep dive is all you need for your AOW, then do it and be over with it.....
 
love2godeep:
It was a drift dive. One of the divers didn't want to swim into the current (and it did turn out to be too strong to swim into), so they decided the boat captain would follow our bubbles.

There was no anchor line.

I think both the captain and the divemaster learned a bit from that one.

Wow....an AOW deep dive / drift-dive.....tell me, did you do this at night too? :)
 
love2godeep:
I woke up early this morning thinking about this whole thing. I can see there are a few more clarifications to make:

1. The DM did do a pre-dive briefing, instructing us to all meet at the bottom and then drift as a unit, so the boat could follow our bubbles.

Hold on....if you dive the buddy-system, you decent in buddy-teams. Noone decents alone and regroups on the bottom within that framework! Besides, if there is current and no anchor-line. the "regroup at the bottom" part may be hard, if at all possible...

2. However, the personal briefing she gave me was on Fish ID (another module I was taking), and not on Deep Diving. I didn't realize that this was going to be considered my Deep Dive until after the fact.

[\quote]

Hold on, one dive was going to be your FishID + Deep Dive? Or did your dm/instructor (which was she, btw? DM or instructor) happen to give a wrong briefing? Either would not be acceptable

3. The DM was aware that I had had trouble with my ears; before the dive she asked me how they were doing, and I said they felt fine. As I think about it, shouldn't she, as the dive professional, have been more aware than me that something might go wrong there? I mention it because we all agree that I should have told her that I might have trouble with my ears; but on second thought, she should have told me!!

Well, if the DM was your buddy, she should have stayed with you during decent and thus been more aware of you. That's the end of it. As a matter of fact, even if you were assigned another buddy, since this was a training-dive, the instructor should be in direct control over you. So while I do not blame the instructor for your ear-problems, I do think that her awareness wasn't where it should have been.

4. I am asking the dive op if this gal is a dive instructor. In any case, I feel that the real onus is on the dive op and not on the girl, to send her out with with 4 other divers (including 2 newbies) while trying to do my AOW cert dives. She would naturally have felt the most concern for getting the two newbies down safely. I had dived with her before and she knew I was competent.

That's besides the point. You "bought" a package, which -- as I understand it -- involved one-on-one with an instructor for your dives. Right? So if that was what you paid for, then there should have been at least two dive professionals from that dive op on board: one for you, one for the 4 other divers.

If she isn't an instructor, and she went on the deep-dive with you without an instructor present....well, give PADI a call and ask what their standards say about that. While you're on the phone with them, ask what their standards say about "solo-deep-training" dives too...

<SNIP>

6. Well, I'm sure this kind of thing happens all over the place--I've had my share of dive ops that took big chances. But I actually researched this place ahead of time here on SB, and it had the best recommendations of all the places on the island. What does that say for the other establishments?

Well...I was about to say "don't judge the dive op or the instructor by one bad dive", but I won't....all it takes for a fatal accident to happen is one bad dive.

If I was your instructor, I probably would not have conducted the training dive in the conditions you describe. I would have taken the dive boat elsewhere with better conditions, or I'd call the dive before suiting up. I'd have apologized and suggested that you come back on another day for the training dive -- but I would not like to bring students in your situation. Completing a course "on schedule" or "just satisfying minimum requirements" isn't really my idea of a good objective (which is probably why I can't even start to make a living from dive instruction).
 
jagfish:
Hey voop,
did you actually read this whole string before your comment? It doesn't sound like it...

JAG

Hey Jag,

Yes and no.....I read the whole thread, but I did comment as I went along (it's a darn long one...). Anything in particular you disagree with?
 
When I look at threads that have been picked through pretty well, I often lament at comments I could have made along the way, but they look out of place to me when put at the end once certain issues seem to have been thoroughly explored or even put to rest...

Anyway, sounded like you had only read the posters later posts, because one or two of your comments seemed off base. Sorry, too late (here) for me to go into it...I was much more energetic today when I made my earlier antagonistic post...

JAG
 
love2godeep:
I woke up early this morning thinking about this whole thing. I can see there are a few more clarifications to make:

1. The DM did do a pre-dive briefing, instructing us to all meet at the bottom and then drift as a unit, so the boat could follow our bubbles.

2. However, the personal briefing she gave me was on Fish ID (another module I was taking), and not on Deep Diving. I didn't realize that this was going to be considered my Deep Dive until after the fact.

3. The DM was aware that I had had trouble with my ears; before the dive she asked me how they were doing, and I said they felt fine. As I think about it, shouldn't she, as the dive professional, have been more aware than me that something might go wrong there? I mention it because we all agree that I should have told her that I might have trouble with my ears; but on second thought, she should have told me!!

4. I am asking the dive op if this gal is a dive instructor. In any case, I feel that the real onus is on the dive op and not on the girl, to send her out with with 4 other divers (including 2 newbies) while trying to do my AOW cert dives. She would naturally have felt the most concern for getting the two newbies down safely. I had dived with her before and she knew I was competent.

4. Having said that, I still think it was an error in judgment to take us down in that current without a line. (They were very aware that there was an unusually strong current, and in fact told us so.) The DM and the captain debated it quite a while before deciding to go ahead.

5. Wasn't it against PADI recommendations to take the girl who hadn't dived since her cert a year ago down to 80+ feet for a drift dive in strong current?

6. Well, I'm sure this kind of thing happens all over the place--I've had my share of dive ops that took big chances. But I actually researched this place ahead of time here on SB, and it had the best recommendations of all the places on the island. What does that say for the other establishments?

Winton, you wondered if the dive op asked me any questions about my skill level, #of dives, etc. before assigning me to this instructor (DM?) Actually, they didn't. I did make a point to tell the girl about my experience before our first dive. (About 25 dives, which included boat, drift, deep, night, and wall diving.) I told her my reason for taking the course was not to get the AOW card in my hot little hand, but to increase my knowledge and awareness; to become a better diver.

I just plain give up on this thread. I again agree with Mike F.

If you've paid anything, stop payment and find another instructor. If not, find another instructor. But get another instructor. This instructor seems to have been doing a lot of multi-tasking. (leading a fun dive, fish ID, AOW and deep dive, not to mention a MMD exercise.....momentarily missing diver) Find another instructor and do what you wanted in the first pkace.....learn something.

Score: Student - 1, Instructor - 0.

Regards,
 
When I did my PADI AOW I was lucky as I did it with the same instructor as my OW. There was just myself my Buddy a DM and the instructor. You Should definately have asked for Your money back on that one or at least redo the dives. I've just completed my rescue diver course along with 5 divers who all Did their OW and AOW at the same dive center as I did mine. I think that as we all know our instructors well we trust them and know that we can rely on a high standard of instruction.
Whatever about diving at new and different sites and in new situations, I feel that learning should be done with people You know and can depend on. :06:
 
I've enjoyed reading through all the posts! As for the dive op... after sending me several rather unpleasant emails, they agreed not to charge me for the dive.... and told me to never contact them again.

I don't understand their attitude. I wish they would have been more congenial. But from what they said, I suspect they are simply trying to make it clear that if I report this incident, their position will be that I fabricated this story, and that if any mistakes were made, they were on my part.

I'm glad I didn't try to finish the AOW with them. I really want it to be a learning experience and not just a card.

Actually, however inadvertently, they provided me with a maginificent learning experience!!!!

I've enjoyed the lessons on deploying a safety sausage. I'm definitely going to experiment with this when I have a chance. Interestingly enough, this was the first time I had ever taken one with me diving. I'd never even heard of one until I joined this board!!
 
love2godeep:
I've enjoyed reading through all the posts! As for the dive op... after sending me several rather unpleasant emails, they agreed not to charge me for the dive.... and told me to never contact them again.

I don't understand their attitude. I wish they would have been more congenial. But from what they said, I suspect they are simply trying to make it clear that if I report this incident, their position will be that I fabricated this story, and that if any mistakes were made, they were on my part.

I'm glad I didn't try to finish the AOW with them. I really want it to be a learning experience and not just a card.

Actually, however inadvertently, they provided me with a maginificent learning experience!!!!

I've enjoyed the lessons on deploying a safety sausage. I'm definitely going to experiment with this when I have a chance. Interestingly enough, this was the first time I had ever taken one with me diving. I'd never even heard of one until I joined this board!!
Good luck with your future dive training.
And yes, this board is fun and you can even learn something from time to time :wink:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom