Sidemount and "tec" training...

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You obviously don't do long shallow dives where there's surf or surge (for instance). SM sucks for that. Backmounted doubles are slightly better if there's a sandy entry. If its a rocky entry, a large single backmounted is really the only safe approach. Its only worse if you have a scooter to carry too.

I'm sure you have plenty of rationalizations why SM is awesome everywhere, you always do, but that doesn't make them true.

My "bread and butter" dives are shore dives with shore break and surge and I fail to see where backmount is an advantage. I simply rig my tanks on land and walk into the water like I would in backmount. Same thing in a rocky entry...no problem whatsoever in sidemount. I don't use a scooter but a few of my sidemount buddies do and they have absolutely no problem. I dive drysuit, sidemount in Lake Ontario, 12 months of the year without problems.
 
Did you try it?
Because I don't have too much of a problem with it, in any case not more than my backmounted buddies.

Hell no. I have no idea what conditions you are diving in but there are many sites around the world where SM will not work (or is downright dangerous). In California, some of the beach sites have horrendous surf. "staging" tanks near the water is ridiculous, it would wash away and you'd never find/see it again. Getting in without shuffling backwards will dump you on your butt, and fill every pore of your buddy with sand. Taking SM tanks and presenting a 'wider' profile to the breaking waves is just stupid.

Similarly, there are sites up here (Washington State) where you have to just about run down the rocks (coated in slime) and giant stride off the end. To exit you take off your fins, and let the surf toss you up on the rocks. Stay on all 4s until the wave wash has left, then before the next wave arrives you stand up and hussle as fast as you can until you are above the surf break.

There is no reason to dive SM at places like these where your max depth might be 15m. A single steel tank backmounted is plenty of gas and presents the least about of drag/weight etc for the conditions. Bring the right tool for the job.

---------- Post added November 15th, 2014 at 05:29 PM ----------

My "bread and butter" dives are shore dives with shore break and surge and I fail to see where backmount is an advantage. I simply rig my tanks on land and walk into the water like I would in backmount. Same thing in a rocky entry...no problem whatsoever in sidemount. I don't use a scooter but a few of my sidemount buddies do and they have absolutely no problem. I dive drysuit, sidemount in Lake Ontario, 12 months of the year without problems.

Surf, in the greater Toronto area. I'm sure its awesome.
 
Grab me a plane, I'll come and teach you... It's sad to be so presomptuous when you actually haven't even tried it

Now you can go and say waves are bigger in California than they are here in Sydney, maybe they are, I don't really care, I'm just sad to see that it's again "it sucks, but I haven't tried it and won't try it"...


I'm not a billionaire yet, so having a backmount CCR, a sm CCR, a BP/W with twins, a BP/W with single, a SM travel rig and a SM "heavy duty" rig is out of order. "The right tool for the job" is a great thing, but sometimes there's other things to keep in mind.
 


---------- Post added November 15th, 2014 at 05:29 PM ----------



Surf, in the greater Toronto area. I'm sure its awesome.[/QUOTE]

Come here in a south wind and dive...Lake Ontario is large enough to be considered an inland ocean.
 
Lots of dives in la Jolla in sidemount, I assume that's surf/surge. I agree it feels different from my BM doubles, harder not really. Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
There is no reason to dive SM at places like these where your max depth might be 15m. A single steel tank backmounted is plenty of gas and presents the least about of drag/weight etc for the conditions. Bring the right tool for the job.

Single tank sidemount and two steel 40s configurations do exist yenno. With the 40s I feel more nimble than I do with a single AL80 BM. While I admit that a single BM is better than a double SM for rough entries but thats mainly the weight difference talking.
 
A single steel tank backmounted is plenty of gas and presents the least about of drag/weight etc for the conditions.
Two 40cft aluminums will offer more gas and are superior in both drag and weight.
You also stay more balanced than when carrying the weight on your back.
There are also a lot of possible single tank options.

Bring the right tool for the job.
Yes, but that is not backmount in the conditions as far as you described them.
 
. What we have instead is a growing number of instructors who are barely qualified to dive sidemount trying to teach it in an environment it wasn't really designed for. In such cases, the risks and contingencies I mentioned earlier aren't usually taught ... because the people doing the teaching don't really understand them. And you can't teach what you don't understand. This is, to my concern, the biggest real-world drawback of the sidemount configuration ... as it applies to the growing number of people who want to use it for open water diving ...

I agree,and you are reinforcing what I've see too. Because sidemount has become a marketing explosion analogous to nitrox was 20 years ago,people are rushing in to get a piece of the pie,and some are completely unprepared and unqualified to teach it. Reminds of when Chrysler released the first minivan in the 80s. The other manufacturers rushed to get a "piece of the action" and pushed out vehicles that were junk, for example the Ford Aerostar. As consumers we need to be cautious,and as much as we hate to question an instructor,ask them their prior experience level, and their cert date on their teaching c-card. It costs a lot of money for training,and you hope to come away with a skill,not be in the instructors learning curve.

---------- Post added November 16th, 2014 at 05:54 AM ----------

Sidemount is synonymous with innovation. There is no part on my 3 rigs that has not been modified and tweaked. I've made my own plates because I could do it better. I've tried all sorts of bungee systems. I've changed out the wings and inflators. They all suit a different purpose. And I'm not the most innovative in my group. Commercially made or not, they all get modified.

It is cool you found the ability to tweak and adjust your sidemount system,and maybe we use the term innovation differently,but something new and unique I consider innovation. For all practical purposes I see most sidemount systems a copy of each other. Harness, with a wing,and a back plate/rails. I see people making modifications all the time like different material for bungees,different sized wing,different placement of the plate/rail etc. What I see have a tendency to happen is when manufacturers make the equipment,the wholesale innovation is suppressed. Someday somebody needs to get Bill Rennaker and Lamar Hires to talk about the evolution of designs of sidemount because they are more responsible than anybody for leading us to where we are today. Bill has several crates of all homemade sidemount harnesses.and from that with each harness you see unique innovation that occurred and also some cool stuff that we don't really see now. For example my understanding is the reason we have a wing on the sidemount harness is because DiveRite had Transpacs and wings,then married these two together because they were in inventory,but in reality many people will tell you,(including myself from my old harness) that side inflate such as a jacket BC is much better because it has better balance,and streamlined-somebody comes out with that in a commercial harness,that would be innovation-something new and unique not a copy of an old system. Another innovation that I would like to see,and have been working on it,is leg loops like a climbing harness versus a crotch strap. Where I know most people don't add vertical to the diving,this would save having two harnesses,but leg loops would have some advantages for just a diving only harness.
 
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On surf entries ... Richard has a valid point, which is one I attempted to make when I talked earlier about different environments changing the advantages/drawbacks equation. I had occasion earlier this week to dive at one of my favorite dive sites in heavy wind conditions. Here in Puget Sound it's the wind that creates the surf ... and unless it's pretty heavy we don't get much for waves. Wind produces choppy waves with short time intervals between sets ... and those can be difficult to manage in any kind of doubles. Even with a singles tank, both myself and TSandM took a tumble that day. I wouldn't even consider diving in those conditions in a sidemount rig ... but I wouldn't consider it in backmount doubles either. When you're walking on rocks in knee deep water and a wave slaps you in the back of the head the last thing you want is a high center of gravity. But let's also think about this for a moment ... how you gonna get up? If you're in backmount doubles your options are limited ... you either stand up in all that gear or you take off the whole rig while you're tumbling in the waves. In sidemount you have several options, depending on conditions and your own fitness level ... you unclip the bottom clips and let the tanks swing, which gives you some leeway with your center of gravity as you're struggling to get up ... or you remove a tank completely ... or you remove both tanks. In most cases, removing one tank will be the preferred option, since it gives you the other tank to breathe from while you're doing the sand-sea-sun tumble.

And FWIW - Richard does dive sidemount, at least occasionally ... I remember doing a dive with him and a few other friends a couple years back when we were all in sidemount rigs. So I'm going to credit that he's got enough experience in the rig to have decided what works best ... for him ... under those conditions. For me, if I'm doing shore entries and conditions are rough, I'd rather be in a backmount singles configuration. But for most of our entry/exit conditions here in Puget Sound, sidemount works just fine.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
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