Side Mount Bicker Battle...

[Razorista]

Yeah @nakatomi
Always the same with you.
If you want to be kept out of it, stay out of it!

 

[DevonDiver]

Thanks @nakatomi

I appreciate your prior situation, as it's what I've also learned over the past few days of discussion. What I thought was naivety and over-zealous enthusiasm by a keen novice actually seems to be a very unhealthy ego complex and completely unfounded arrogance.... and some worrying instability.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Frankly, it's a boring and unsatisfying exercise to engage with someone who is clearly living a fantasy in their own mind.

I'm more than happy to disagree with people in forum debates, even to argue on strongly held beliefs, but I have to retain an underlying respect for that person and the validity of their perspectives to make it worthwhile.It's very rare that I lose respect for someone, because I believe that everyone has a right to an opinion, whether I agree with it or not; and I accept that perspectives are unique and founded on different circumstances and values.

But I've rapidly lost that respect for Razorista, so I'm done with trying to debate with him. I have little patience for people who act up on the internet and pretend to be something they are not.

 

[Razorista]

Daniel, that's not exactly what happened

That's exactly what happened @nakatomi

Much like everyone here, I was at first entertained by your postings of epic proportions (like in this thread) and your crude theories about diving in our local dive forums over in Europe.

No, from the beginning you wanted to stop my success at bringing the modern, working form of sidemount to Germany.
You failed!

It wasn't until you extended your distribution of "knowledge" deep into the field of cave and technical diving.
That's when I objected and started to call you out on it.

I know exactly when it started nakatomi:
When I mentioned, that open water sidemount divers need to be even more careful with gas planning, since that doesn't come natural to them compared to certified cave divers.
You attacked me for giving 'incompetent cave diving advice' for that.
You where wrong then and I proved you to be in a few posts.
But being wrong does not stop you, does it?

Many of our disagreements were centered around your lack of appreciation of training,

That's your perception.
I critizise people for thinking that a weekend of training makes them anything, cave diver, siedmount diver, dry suit diver.
In Germany people often use 'important words' to describe what essentially isn't much training at all.

downplaying and shifting the dangers and finally you advocating cave penetration without certification (which you claim you performed on many occasions).

Yes, downplaying...
Like recommending putting fins on after entering the water.
I recommend diving competence, nothing else.

In your highly simplified version of diving, not much can go wrong if someone is equipped with a Razor, a single bungee system and a pouch filled with tons of spare parts. And as of recent a helmet mounted Razor light.

Yes, because I am sure the equipment I have chosen for myself would allow anyone to copy and surpass what I can do with it.

I object to all that over-simplification.

Calling people incompetent and warning a forum about it openly as you did is not objection.
That's just the way you show your own incompetence and character flaws and everybody competent realized that, let me tell you.

Now how you can get into personal arguments with one of the most diplomatic posters of all time, Andy, is absolutely beyond my comprehension.

Andy started it. (and I am not participating)

Just please try to leave me out of it and I'll try not to get involved either much less be accused of harassing you online

You did and I could proof that.
I did not bring your name into this.

 

[Razorista]

I have little patience for people who act up on the internet and pretend to be something they are not.

Likewise.
It's not me who is actively promoting his buisness on the internet.

You just do not like people to contradict you. Grow up!

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Just for the record, I brought Nakatomi into this.

 

[Razorista]

Just for the record, I brought Nakatomi into this.

Thank you, yes, you did.

But that would not be a problem normally and you probably could not have guessed.

Andy's (and Mikes') behavior is more shocking to me at the moment.

The aggressiveness some are able to show towards contradicting opinions is very confusing
Sidemount divers can get even more unreasonable than backmount divers, I sometimes think/fear.
In my case that poses a problem, since I can always explain and prove what I am saying.

 

[Razorista]

I find the hubris shown here disturbing.

It seems totally normal to some of you that a simple diver is not allowed to critizise the great instructor, not even answer to his criticism with anything but 'Yes great Guru'.
When he tells you he is also probably an instructor and has been doing it for 5 years with an average of 220 dives per year, he is told he should shut up and listen meekly to the 'greater instructor'

Well then: put your money where your mouth is. Buy a Razor, use a single bungee.
Steve B. has been doing this or developing it for 15 years. Can anyone here match that? I don't think so.
I hope I will never be jaded enough to stop listening to other divers even those just beginning training.
Getting your head that high up into the clouds could cause a headache

 

[Jack Hammer]

Sidemount is nothing new, people have been diving it for over half a century. Lately it's been more common.

 

[bamafan]

This thread is so laughable. It seems to me that someone thinks there is only one way to dive sidemount. Anyone that believes this really needs to go see what others are doing. As stated above sidemount diving has been around a long time. Some people have done an excellent job of promoting their way of sidemount diving. Bogaerts has done an excellent job of taking a CDG minimalist style rig and promoting it as his own. Others have developed a following with sandwiched backplates and then there is the Florida crowd. I really don't believe any one sidemount system is optimal under all conditions. If you need large volumes of gas the minimalist rigs don't work as well as the Florida style rigs do. Now the Florida style rigs are way to bulky for the wetsuit / aluminum tank diving they do in Mexico. Anyway Oliver I am sorry I didn't believe you but after reading this dribble I think you are spot on.

 

[Razorista]

...I really don't believe any one sidemount system is optimal under all conditions. ....

Than you are wrong.
Most are optimal in any condition.